Replacement Upper Ball Joints?

[1KWIKSIX]

I have a set of GBody tubular upper control arms and need to fit some ball joints before I install these.

I've been reading that 1/2" taller ball joint on the top will get rid of some of the "Bump Steer" issues these cars have.

Two choices out there are:

Speedway Motor: AFCO Low Friction Upper Ball Joint 1/2" extended #20032-2LF @ $43.99 ea

or

Summit Racing : Proforged 1/2" Taller Ball Joint #101-10020 @ $49.99 (with free shipping)


Should I stick with the standard length ball joint or go with the extended upper?

Is there a preference AFCO vs Proforged? Is one better than the other?

If anyone has any experience with these or comments, would appreciate hearing from you.

thanks

dave

 

[Steve V]

All I can add is they affect the camber curve not bumpsteer. I am looking at this myself.

 

[Hy82e]

All I can add is they affect the camber curve not bumpsteer. I am looking at this myself.

this x2. I'm looking into this as well.

tall ball joint in the upper = camber improvement
tall ball joint in the lower = bumpsteer improvement (keep in mind this also lowers the ride height by 1/2")

And in recent research I have been told that when using tall ball joints the correct a-arms to use are the shorter 8" type.
The passenger side with companies like gbodyparts, speedway, etc. I have not confirmed this with multiple sources so you may want to confirm that with an "expert"

 

[DoubleD]

I like my proforged 1/2" taller upper and lowers on Gbody upper arms and stock lowers.

very solid pieces, went together just fine.

 

[Hy82e]

DoubleD are you using 2 passenger side a-arms?

 

[DoubleD]

I am using the tubular uppers from Gbodyparts. they are identical length on both sides direct from them. The bronze bushings are nice too. They wear in over the first 300 miles then make sure you put a nice round of grease through them and they work great. The stuff that came out of mine after the first 300 was nasty.

 

[1KWIKSIX]

I am using the tubular uppers from Gbodyparts. they are identical length on both sides direct from them. The bronze bushings are nice too. They wear in over the first 300 miles then make sure you put a nice round of grease through them and they work great. The stuff that came out of mine after the first 300 was nasty.

Thanks for the feedback guys......

Couple of questions for ya:

1) does installing only the 1/2" taller upper ball joint have any affect on cars ride height?
2) does installing the 1/2" taller upper ball joint cause any issue with hitting the Down Pipe? (not sure , but I would guess since it's taller, it would raise the upper control arms resting location vs the stock ball joint)
3) any changes in alignment settings (camber / caster) req'd with the install of the 1/2" taller ball joint?
4) I have seen some people remove the straight grease zerk fitting on the tubular upper arms & install a 90degree fitting. Guess there is little to no room to be able to fit the grease gun fitting into this (especialy the side closest to the firewall). Has anyone done this? I'm thinking it may be a good idea.
5) due to the control arm brass bushings being so close to the down pipe & the high temps in that area, would a synthetic grease for the control arm bushing be better?


Thanks for your feedback & for the help. It's greatly apprecieated.

dave

 

[DoubleD]

I'll answer these as best I can:

1) I believe that it has a small affect on the ride height, lowering it. At the time I installed all of mine I also did Moog 5658 springs with both upper and lowr ball joints, so I know the total result was good, but not how each part contributed
2) The control arm will be at a different angle, so if you actually were close before (unlikely with the tubular arms?) then you could run into an issue. I would say you would have to already be having problems for it to actually be a problem
3) I did not make any adjustments to the amount of shims used on my car. The taller ball joints improve the caster/camber curves, not necessarily the settings themselves (my understanding)
4) I wish I would have known that before I installed them. the rear one is a total pain in the ass. I can get to it because I have no A/C though, but it is still a huge pain. if the exhaust is hot, forget it. Highly recommend going to 90° fittings. Maybe I'll do that too next time I work on the car.
5) I use a synthetic grease in mine. They will get hot. The silver tube stuff is what I use. Lucas red and tacky seems nice too, had that for a while. Definitely re-grease soon after the initial install. Mine started squeaking, and I saw why after I regreased.

Extra tip, make sure you install the arms in the right direction. one side is shorter than the other on each arm. Also, for safety, Install ball joints such that you are putting the rod through the hole in the control arm. if the bolts are to loosen and fall out, you will still have the spindle captured instead of a total failure... It'll still mess crap up, but you wont destroy everything/die.

Love,
-D

 

[1KWIKSIX]

I'll answer these as best I can:

1) I believe that it has a small affect on the ride height, lowering it. At the time I installed all of mine I also did Moog 5658 springs with both upper and lowr ball joints, so I know the total result was good, but not how each part contributed
2) The control arm will be at a different angle, so if you actually were close before (unlikely with the tubular arms?) then you could run into an issue. I would say you would have to already be having problems for it to actually be a problem
3) I did not make any adjustments to the amount of shims used on my car. The taller ball joints improve the caster/camber curves, not necessarily the settings themselves (my understanding)
4) I wish I would have known that before I installed them. the rear one is a total pain in the ass. I can get to it because I have no A/C though, but it is still a huge pain. if the exhaust is hot, forget it. Highly recommend going to 90° fittings. Maybe I'll do that too next time I work on the car.
5) I use a synthetic grease in mine. They will get hot. The silver tube stuff is what I use. Lucas red and tacky seems nice too, had that for a while. Definitely re-grease soon after the initial install. Mine started squeaking, and I saw why after I regreased.

Extra tip, make sure you install the arms in the right direction. one side is shorter than the other on each arm. Also, for safety, Install ball joints such that you are putting the rod through the hole in the control arm. if the bolts are to loosen and fall out, you will still have the spindle captured instead of a total failure... It'll still mess crap up, but you wont destroy everything/die.

Love,
-D

Thanks for the tips!

dave

 

[charlief1]

Well if you want to get a better camber curve you need a total of 1" on the ball joints. Just a .5" top or bottom will help and you can get a 1" taller ball joint for the lower and go back with the stock top joint. Balance is the key here to get the most out of the chasis. I'd say go with a .5" taller top and bottom which will help bump stter as well as camber curve. You can also get a bump steer correction kit from speedway motors fairly cheap but you'ver got to understand how to adjust them to get the best reaction out of them.

 

[Steve V]

Well if you want to get a better camber curve you need a total of 1" on the ball joints. Just a .5" top or bottom will help and you can get a 1" taller ball joint for the lower and go back with the stock top joint. Balance is the key here to get the most out of the chasis. I'd say go with a .5" taller top and bottom which will help bump stter as well as camber curve. You can also get a bump steer correction kit from speedway motors fairly cheap but you'ver got to understand how to adjust them to get the best reaction out of them.

Ok so 1 longer upper and lower are not needed. Choose 1 or the other or .5 top and .5 bottom?
I have not seen to .5 longers from proforged or gbody, Sc&C are a bit out of my range.

 

[charlief1]

Ok so 1 longer upper and lower are not needed. Choose 1 or the other or .5 top and .5 bottom?
I have not seen to .5 longers from proforged or gbody, Sc&C are a bit out of my range.

A total of 1" is what you want whether it's 1 1" taller joint on the bottom or 2 .5" taller. You might check out speedway motors on them which might save you some $.

 

[hawkfan]

Ok so 1 longer upper and lower are not needed. Choose 1 or the other or .5 top and .5 bottom?
I have not seen to .5 longers from proforged or gbody, Sc&C are a bit out of my range.

Gbody has the proforge 1/2" taller upper balljoints. I called and asked for them when I ordered the a arms.

 

[DoubleD]

I'll make someone's life easier:

Proforged .5" taller lowers: Part # 101-10048
Proforged .5" taller uppers: Part# 101-10020

I purchased direct from mfg. Also recommend some sort of separator so that you can get them apart. pickle fork won't work anymore, plus you wouldn't want to destroy them anyway.

-D

 

[Steve V]

Thanks guys! I will prob go with the 1inch taller lower so it drops the front end.

 

[Hy82e]

Does anybody have any real world info on what running a 1" taller lower ball joint only does to the ride quality?
If .5" helps bump steer does the 1" add more correction and help camber, or would it just create a bump "over" steer scenario?

Steve V, maybe someone with experience will offer some input, but both Afco and Moog offer a standard tall ball joint that is typically about half the cost of the low friction ones. I'm unaware of the downsides of that route though.

Also I seen Qa1 makes one for about $40 that is rebuildable that the shaft can be interchanged to go tall and back.

 

[nonosv6]

I have the Howe 1/2" upper and lower balljoints on my car..u can adjust the preload(i believe its called) on them and they are rebuildable .... They will lower the car approximately 7/8" I believe.... Ride quality,well put it this way, I have spc uca with the bearings,not bushings, eibach springs and stock lca with afco nylon lightweight bushings qa1 dbl adjustable shocks in the front and even with a 255-35/18 the car rode Damn good...its pretty low though FYI... I have mostly all delrin bushings in my rear suspension also...I have no complaints about the ride quality at all...no it does not ride like a stock Buick,but I don't want it to either.....

 

[Hy82e]

Bump for the pros and cons of:
.5" taller upper and lower ball joints vs 1" taller lower ball joints.