Sce Copper Titans

[gnxtc2]

For everyone's reading pleasure

SCE Gaskets Incorporated - A Stronger Seal

And Duttweiler put them to the test

SCE Gaskets Incorporated - A Stronger Seal

I spoke with SCE about these gaskets. The main important things are the surface has to be real smooth just like a Cometic and the O-ring must not be in the chamber. It must be totally compressed for a proper seal.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[GNDriven]

SCE Titans did not fit

Kevin B,

I have a 109 block that has been bored 30 over and Champion Iron Heads. I recently went through an ordeal were I ordered a pair of SCE Titan series head gaskets PN S72956 which is a 3.950" bore at .062" thickness for clamping force, since I have the 8 bolt stock head pattern.

The engine builder whose competence is not questionable, laid the head gasket over the head and noticed that at the point were the intake valve was opened by CNC, for more air flow, the head gasket laid over into the chamber. Specs lists the distance should be .010" from the edge of the combustion chamber. The stock gasket fits fine because it is not a perfect circle like the SCE gasket. The stock gasket has a little oval shape that is designed to clear the intake chamber.

So I called SCE and was told to just try a larger bore size. So I had Summit get SCE to drop ship PN S72006 which is the 4.010" bore at .062" thk. Still it laid over into the intake chamber. Even the largest bore size that SCE offered still did not allow for the correct clearance and distance from head gasket to chamber.

I then called Champion who for the record does not recommend any particular head gasket, but does sale Cometics. The Cometic fit and is on my engine currently. I have not cranked the engine yet, still putting it all back together, I just hope I do not experience the leaking like others mention. I would have really like to try the SCE Titans, but was forced to find alternate accommodations. There may be other post on this topic, I did not look

 

[KevinB]

When I talked to the tech at SCE, he mentioned that problem people had with the iron heads. I did not have that problem with the GN1's.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Just to update. After a few more 6 teen passes at 114 the SCE ICS gaskets have given up and are not sealing compression. Heads are off and Cometics are going back on. This is with GN1's.

 

[Underboost]

Well, I'm in the process of putting Alum. Heads on. They're M&A Gen III's w/ 194 valves. I know! I couldn't pass the deal up. R's are in the works. So what should I use with these heads?? Cometics, RJC, SCE. ??? The motor is 20 over.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Another update on the ICS Titans. Chris took the heads off the block and gaskets were deformed. Either compression or the clamp from the torque made the gaskets form an egg shape on every cylinder. It seems these gaskets will need some sort of o-ring in the head or block for the soft copper to maintain it's shape around the cylinders. We're going back to Cometics.

 

[TurboBob]

which cometics? do you prefer the thicker ones or thinner?

I bubbled my coolant overflow today, and may need to replace my shim gaskets (or perhaps they need a retorque after 4 years of abuse)

B

 

[Underboost]

SCE is Lagging!

Another update on the ICS Titans. Chris took the heads off the block and gaskets were deformed. Either compression or the clamp from the torque made the gaskets form an egg shape on every cylinder. It seems these gaskets will need some sort of o-ring in the head or block for the soft copper to maintain it's shape around the cylinders. We're going back to Cometics.

I ordered some custom SCE Titan HG's and it's been over a month and half they said two weeks! I talked with Paul over there and I just keeps giving me the run around with a shipping date. :frown: He said tomorrow they will be sent out. anyways I will be O-Ringing the heads, and receiver grooving the bock once they arrive for a perfect fit. I'll keep you guys posted on how well they hold up to 28-30psi

 

[jpratt]

So Brent,
Any updates?

 

[cdsttype]

I HAD THE SAME EXPERINCE AS DUSTY WITH THE TITANS.
THEY WENT EGG SHAPED WITH T/A ALUMINUM
HEADS ON A TSM 109 BLOCK. NEVER HAD A PROBLEM
WITH THE COMETIC GASKETS.:frown:

 

[KevinB]

Here's my update. I just took my stuff apart to change some stuff around...

Anyways, the Titans were leaking on the outside on cylinders 3 & 6. I think they were leaking (but not blown) at high boost (28 psi). The gaskets were not deformed though (about 100 passes or so, with the average around in the 9.9 area.) I have a 109 with the extra studs on the top and head clamps on the bottom with GN1 heads. I had to cut the head clamps to hell to make them work with my ATR headers, especially around the middle set screw. I'm undecided what I am going to use when I put the engine back together. I've heard some horror stories about the Cometics taking a chunk of aluminum out of the head when they blow. That kinda scares me...

 

[chasmat2316]

Here's my update. I just took my stuff apart to change some stuff around...

Anyways, the Titans were leaking on the outside on cylinders 3 & 6. I think they were leaking (but not blown) at high boost (28 psi). The gaskets were not deformed though (about 100 passes or so, with the average around in the 9.9 area.) I have a 109 with the extra studs on the top and head clamps on the bottom with GN1 heads. I had to cut the head clamps to hell to make them work with my ATR headers, especially around the middle set screw. I'm undecided what I am going to use when I put the engine back together. I've heard some horror stories about the Cometics taking a chunk of aluminum out of the head when they blow. That kinda scares me...

Hi Kevin just wondering how do you have extra studs on top with a 109 block? any pics? also I didn't think the RJC head clamps fit with ATR'S? any pics of that mod? Thanx Charlie

 

[KevinB]

Hi Kevin just wondering how do you have extra studs on top with a 109 block? any pics? also I didn't think the RJC head clamps fit with ATR'S? any pics of that mod? Thanx Charlie

I don't have any pics, but you have to bolt the headers on, mark the interference areas, remove material, repeat You can make them fit, it takes a little of time. Problem is that the pass side needs a lot of material removed, the center bolt on my clamps could not be torqued all the way, it started to bend the clamp were I took a lot of material out.

 

[forcedfedv6]

I've have personally seen these head gaskets (SCE copper) blow and get egg shape deformed at the 1st sign of the head lifting, and yes they do have a problem overlapping in the head chamber, very bad design and these heads do not work with our cars quite well has they put it.

 

[turbot990]

i agree

I got them in 3.85 I think. That is as small as they come (more bore size is 3.82).

Went 9.9 today at 27-28 psi. No problems at all:biggrin:

they work well no leaks sealed nice from one kev to another whats up bud

 

[TurboT231]

ICS Titans.

I HAD THE SAME EXPERINCE AS DUSTY WITH THE TITANS.
THEY WENT EGG SHAPED WITH T/A ALUMINUM
HEADS ON A TSM 109 BLOCK. NEVER HAD A PROBLEM
WITH THE COMETIC GASKETS.:frown:

Just changed mine to cometics from the same thing as Dusty and cdsttype just described. Egg shaped #3,5,& 4 cylinders using the 3 extra studs across the top like KevinB has and RJC's head clamps across the bottom on TA aluminum heads. I'm almost sure it's from the copper being to soft.

 

[KevinB]

they work well no leaks sealed nice from one kev to another whats up bud

Just trying to get my stuff back together

 

[J-B Racing]

sce

Well the Heads I just sold that I gave them with the SCE Copper HG NEVER let go. But these were the Flat Coppers that required O-Rings on the Heads.
I beat the engine for 3 years at 30 lbs of boost. Took the Heads off last Month because of other issues. Zero leak..
Boy you guys are scaring me..I want to get the Titans because I find SCE are the best for me till now. In my years, Head gasket failures always revolve to Tuning factors appart from workmanship.
I will give it a shot on the Titans and see what happens...

Joe

 

[scot w.]

Fel-pro 1007 head gasket's

I also have the M & A Stage III heads. Mine are off Bob Petersons (six shooter) car and they have reciver grooves. I recently had a problem with the passenger head lifting and it was due to me never re-torquing the bolts before the engine was installed. This time around I just installed the same FEL-PRO (1007) gaskets that were on there but this time I pulled the whole engine to check and do everything right. I had the heads preasure checked, new valve stem seals, and checked for warpage and also pulled all the ARP studs and re-sealed the threads and installed them. Got the heads back and installed them using the FEL-PRO 1007's gaskets, I done the first initial torque, then the next day I re-torqued them again losening the nuts and torqued them back, The following day I just re-torqued them and I havn't re-torqued them after a heat cycle at all and Iv'e been running 25psi with my PTE 70 GTQ with 93 pump gas & Methanol with out any problems yet.

I'm always looking for a better gasket to work with these heads and the correct way to torque them down. There is so many ways mentioned on this site on what the proper way to torque heads I don't know which way is correct!
1) re-torque - after one heat cycle
2) re-torque - after several heat cycles
3) re-torque - after instalation (no need to losen them)
4) re-torque - after instalation ( losen then re-torque)

Confusing!!! I'm sure all ways have worked for people, but What is the best and most reliable way?

Scot W.

 

[Underboost]

So Brent,
Any updates?

Sorry man yes they finally came. They are Idiots over there at SCE. I O-ringed the block and receiver grooved the heads the motor is running like a Champ! I've been working a ton so no track times yet. Soon!

Here is a link to see the car finished.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/south-western-area/235802-some-pic-s-car.html