stock converters..

[buddiiee]

ok so, i see everybody talking about whether or not they want to rebuild or replace their tc with or lock or nonlock options... i see that people are saying that with a lock up, ya lose a tenth or so when racing cuz of the lock up. so people sometimes modify their tc's with paper clips and whatnot. why, when the stocker never locks under WOT anyways. from the way i see that the stocker it built, its the perfect tc for our cars. (except for durability for the 12 second cars and under). why is the lock/nonlock debate still going on? some say they want performance, some say they still prefer their mpg.. isnt the stocker the best of both worlds? if not please explain.

 

[bison]

In a nearly stock car the stock converter is excellent. There is a sight benefit on the dragstrip to locking the converter in 3rd gear at 90+ MPH. Having it lock on the 2-3 doesnt seem to help et's much. I see 2-3mph and about .1sec benefit locking the converter. In a car with cam, heads, and especially turbo, the stocker or its replacements(orange stripe, red stripe) will slow the car down out of the whole and make it much harder to drive. You wouldnt believe the difference with a good 9" behind your modded engine. It will make the car feel and perform way better. There are converters that can be locked at WOT(vigilante) and still benefit from the extreme torque multiplication out of the whole and on shifts. I like the driveability of the Art Carr 9"(16930). The latest ones are very efficient for a non locker and produce tremendous reults as well as being very durable. Running a locked converter at WOT and having the car shift while locked is hard on the internals of the trans. I have seen several guys twist of the stock forward clutch housing shaft on the 3-2 downshift at WOT when they forgot to unlock the converter before stepping on it. If you buy a Vigilante converter and plan on having the trans take the abuse running it locked while shifting you better have the upgraded billet internals or you will need a AAA Plus membership for sure.

 

[buddiiee]

so some of these high speed aftermarket converters dont lock? neither does the stocker under wot. thats why im still lost. so whats the most responsive tc i can go with, that still has a lock up option, for cruising use to help keep my mpg. i dont drive my gn that often in the summer, but it does get some cruising time though, and my mpg is still important to me, as well as the lowest possible rpm's.

 

[bison]

You can buy an aftermarket higher stall converter with a lock up clutch but it shouldnt be locked at WOT or it will fail prematurely. Alot of chips force lockup at high speeds(90+mph). You must be sure the chip does not do this. Precision industries sells converters that can be locked at WOT but they are pricey. If your worried about mpg or rpm build your car around the stock converter. You will be limited on your turbo selection though. I like the Art Carr 16930 3200 stall non-locker. It only costs you a couple mpg and doesnt slip to much while cruising, but greatly enhances the cars driveability with larger turbos.

 

[Russ Merritt]

ok so, i see everybody talking about whether or not they want to rebuild or replace their tc with or lock or nonlock options... i see that people are saying that with a lock up, ya lose a tenth or so when racing cuz of the lock up. so people sometimes modify their tc's with paper clips and whatnot. why, when the stocker never locks under WOT anyways. from the way i see that the stocker it built, its the perfect tc for our cars. (except for durability for the 12 second cars and under). why is the lock/nonlock debate still going on? some say they want performance, some say they still prefer their mpg.. isnt the stocker the best of both worlds? if not please explain.

If you can't force (paper clip/switch in adl connector) your trans/converter to lock up @ WOT find out why. Most times the stock 2004R lock-up solenoid that can't handle the extra pressure created at WOT and will not actuate. The 700R4 solenoid, no matter what the pressure actuates without fail. I have seen this on a test bench at PTS Transmissions. The 200 solenoid is an inferior part and should be replaced. That is where I would begin with your slightly modified, mint GN. I have always gained MPH and lowered ET with the converter locked. In 14,13,12,11, and low 10 sec cars, with stock, 9/11 and Vigilante lock-up converters.


I think it's all personal preferance between differant converters/racers, not so much a debate. Lawrence Conley and Red Armstrong are also lock-up believers and have gone very fast with them. Some people think that because it is a lock-up converter, it won't give high performance and the clutch won't last long. That is far from the truth. The lock-ups have come a long way in durability and if you think the lock-up is hurting you at the track, you can race it both ways, locked or unlocked. With your mint, slightly modded GN, it would be a mistake to change to nonlock-up in my opinion. Any of the vendors here could get you a VERY durable D5 lock-up that will do all you want from your GN at a great price. If $ isn't a problem, get a nicer perhaps a billet unit. Make some calls, it won't hurt and you might learn somethin good. Good luck dude.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

ahh i see. well i guess it make more sense to tell you my ultimate goals first huh. (im buddiiee) every mod on my gn, will be torwards one thing, modern handling, and the fastest spool time/low end throttle response and torque. i rarely take her over 80 anyways, and it will only go above 80 when i do the test and tune thingys at the local track every now and then, to see where im at compared to everyone else. i love it when i stab the throttle, and it locks my seatbelt tighter by 2 clicks. i do a lot of street racing, and low end response at say, a 25 roll is everything. but i show her as well, and a clean neat, nicely executed regal is paramount as well. i dont wany any of my buick luxury, or mpg to suffer, so from what ive been researching, the stock setup is pretty much the best around. of course a better intake, exhaust, chip, conveter and suspension is necessary. well i already have a really good suspension, and gettin the chip is the last thing on my mind, cuz i already have a place for that, and i know what to get. i have a 2800 stall on there now, but the numnuts that owned the car before me didnt know what it was. i have a decent intake and exhaust, but i think it can be better. shes pretty quick now, but i want more throttle response from her. and i know how to do it. the only factor that stumps me, is the TC. i know everything else about the drivetrain i need to know to reach my goals. as the lower et bug bites me harder and harder, ill slowly upgrade to bigger turbos, injectors, tc's, intercoolers etc etc. but for now, low end response is what i want. i firmly belive, that i can take my stock setup, with the right tc and chip, to low 12's, and thats my overall goal. if that proves to be too stressful to my stock setup, ill just have to go to more efficient air movers (ie in and out piping, bigger tb, injectors, turbo, ic etc etc) but im a long way from that. for now, spool time is my name should i just restall a stocker and be done with it?

 

[Russ Merritt]

A 2800 stall should be more than enough. Somethin else is wrong if the spool up on your GN isn't insanely quick now...... One thing at a time, get the lock-up to work WOT. Becareful lockin it up as too much load on pump gas will knock......I wouldn't try it on pump gas untill well into third but every car is differant.

 

[bison]

For your current goals the stock torque converter is more than adequate. If you have a slow spool look for exhaust leaks, the proper connection of the wastegate hoses and the chip. Also be sure that the wastegate puck is sealing against the housing. A free flowing exhaust with no catalytic converter will increase the spool rate.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

right. i got a handle on all of that. ive become quite the 'spool freak' these days. (thanks to you guys) the only question was the proper tc choice. i think im just going to get a restalled stocker and be done with it. i dont trust the moron that had this car before. Not only do i not trust that its a true 2800, but it may even be the totally wrong choice for the car. i will throw a better stocker in there and see what she does

 

[Grumpy]

Stocker is more than enuff for you ... the wheel is round..believe me