The Numbers Game with the (SPI) Trunk ID Label - Kirban

[SS_Sean]

I sure wish someone knew what the code ZR6 was for.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

No,no,no. Don't change the rules. Hey that car belonged to somebody at one time. Still belongs to somebody. For all you know it could be right here at GBodyParts.Yes I missed the point. No soup for me! I guess you better count yourself out of your own game as you better prove you are still in possesion of the 51 code car than. Yes I'm going to keep bustin' your ballz but I want you to know it's all in the sake of fun and I hope there are no hard feelings between us. I know I started out sounding like a blow hard(hey what else you going to call a TR lover) and I'd like to apoligize for acting that way.:redface:

Just kidding on the prize. See you in BG. Bring that 51 code car!


I do have this SPID label "code break down", down to an exact science.While I couldn't talk to anybody at Buick back when these cars were new, I did make it a mission to discover what I could about how our cars were built. Remember the SPID label is just a minature instruction sheet telling the guys on the assembly line what equipment to put an the car. Not to Hi-Jack Dennis' thread but if anybody has a specific question that Dennis is not familiar with than just PM me and I'll try my best. What I know about SPID codes, and not just the TRs but with all G-Bodys, could probably make for a good reference book the size of War and Peace.:wink:

kirban 2 cents worth

My Turbo-T has 52 codes not 51. I seldom drive the car but it wil be at our open house later this month. No time to drive it.

I see we agree on how complicated the code system can be and how much material it would take to document everything. As you can see by now from my writing style I take a easy to read approach and point out things I have discovered along my way.

If you have it down to a science and in copy form you should print it out. Be amazed at how well books sell. The beauty and Brian will appreciate this, you sell a book you get zero complaints it is not like a part. Books sell to people that don't even have the cars. Write a book and it sells all year round. Two of my books are carried by Amazon....Look at the engine book Pete Hoffman who works for us did.

If you do it let me know I would be happy to get it done for you....My Dad has over 50 books to his credit several hit the 1/2 million mark in sales. His writings are a whole lot deeper material than I do.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

if nothing else look at the response just on this thread alone. The hard part is n the writing, after that its easy.

For example I know of a certian GTO book that has sold over 50,000 copies....Do the math and you can see how it adds up.

 

[salvageV6]

Books are outdated with the web these days.

Here's a link to a site that decodes VIN's and RPO codes.

Yeah it's not perfect but neither is any book.

Has a lot of useful information most of it is correct too.

Oldsmobile G-Body Mailing List

Free to me is:

If Buick people were half organized they'd have all this stuff down in print already on the net.

 

[salvageV6]

From a Corvette site regarding C5's.

Same code ZR6.

" ZR6 coded show cars most of the time were used for "car shows" like the one in Detroit, Chicago, NY, and Cleveland. They are built for the shows, shipped to the dealer nearest the venue and then used in the show. After the show (at least here in Cleveland) the cars are distributed to dealers around the venue area who signed up to get a vehicle used in the show. These cars often get another discount from several hundred dollars to a few thousand. "

Possibly a special order from GM to be used in a show then sold a dealer near the show.

It would be interesting to know how many of these cars were used by GM in shows.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

In response to above about being not completely organized. Almost without execption every collectible car first started out as a new car, then a used car, owners modified them to their liking when they were plentiful, then as years pass people start restoring them as a rule.

Turbo Buicks are no exception some owners cut that 3" hole in that inner turbo plastic fender, drilled gauges in the trim plate above the glove box...
looking back they are things that are tough to correct now that certain parts are scarce.

Books are great reference materials and so is the internet as well. This thread has proven to be an eye opener and we will look at other things as it continues.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

the low end to beat is 52 high end to beat with number of codes is 98. My guess is it will take a loaded Limited to beat out the 98 codes. As owners have learned codes is not simply about options but a DNA reading of what
what is in your car.

 

[djj624]

93 codes on my 86.

 

[Darkcyde]

this is a fantastic thread Dennis


I forgot to mention that my dad still is the only owner on our 94 coded 1986 GN back on page 4. The only reason we ended up getting so many options on our GN was because the Huntington Beach Buick Dealer LAGGGGGED on the delivery of a GNX, my father was on the list and after waiting 6 months for the GNX my dad was pretty pissed. So he goes to the Dealer in Huntington and tells them he wants his money back yada yada yada because there was no GNX coming soon enough. So the owner of the dealership talked him out of walking away by selling us the 94 coded 1986 GN. I remember he claimed this GN was one of the highest optioned in California at the time. Little did I know that here we are over 20 years later, and I think so far that is that I still have one of the highest optioned 1986 GN's in all of California, not to mention we are the original owners of the car still. I am glad we got the 94 coded 1986 GN, it has a sunroof and touch button climate control! Plus my 16x9.5" Riken Mesh wheels with a 4.5" polished lip look better then the stock 16" GNX wheels anyways. Riken wheels are made in Japan just like the BBS and are aluminum wheels so they are incredibly light for their size. 295' BFGs fit perfect on them in the rear and I didn't have to notch the frame at all, just custom made the back spacing on the wheels and wa la! Fits like a glove.


again Dennis thank you for this read, excellent reading!

 

[turbofish38]

If you do it let me know I would be happy to get it done for you....My Dad has over 50 books to his credit several hit the 1/2 million mark in sales. His writings are a whole lot deeper material than I do.

Books are outdated with the web these days.

I may just take you up on your offer Dennis. And I agree about the paper vs hard drive comment. I have a well known publisher of a few car magazines back in my old neighborhood. It was his opinion that a Buick only resource book would be a no seller. Not enough interest to justify it, or in other words I'd be writing for free. Now if I included all G-Bodys than I'd be able to buy that GNX at Barrett Jackson. Lets face it. The Chevy is mightier than the Buick any day ofthe week.

" ZR6 coded show cars most of the time were used for "car shows" like the one in Detroit, Chicago, NY, and Cleveland. They are built for the shows, shipped to the dealer nearest the venue and then used in the show. After the show (at least here in Cleveland) the cars are distributed to dealers around the venue area who signed up to get a vehicle used in the show. These cars often get another discount from several hundred dollars to a few thousand. "

I have several SPID labels in the files with ZR6. Now at first I thought it was just a "check" code used to make sure the computer was thinking or what I call a "Wild Card" code as I've seen some oddball codes on our cars too. But than one day I recieved a call from a gentleman who just happened to have his build sheet from a 84 T-Type and it has ZR6 Show Car printed out on the option list. To bad he wasn't computer sauvy otherwise he would have e-mailed me a scan. Why he couldn't mail me a photo copy I don't know. But the strange thing was he couldn't tell me who the ordering dealer was. Now I'm big into Rivieras. The SPIDS are full of codes but not as many as ours since they don't have 20 black out molding codes. Now what has always puzzled me was that a few have Buick Motor Division as the delivering dealer. The only thing that they have in common is that the build dates are fairly early in the model year. I'm assuming Factory Executive Demos. It would be great if one of these ZR6 owners would spend the $50 to have Historical Services run the invoice and see who the delivering dealer is. That might solve this "Show Car" issue once and for all. Let's put it this way. There seems to be an awful lot of show cars out there if you ask me. Heck for all I know maybe more than Limiteds with tan leather interiors if Dennis' figures are correct.

 

[sonseeker]

Yes to the f&r carpet savers. I should prolly buy some of the aftermarket ones and put the factory one's away? Yes have both the a01&ao2.Body side moldings.So like you said mine must be a pretty rare GN?

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Yes to the f&r carpet savers. I should prolly buy some of the aftermarket ones and put the factory one's away? Yes have both the a01&ao2.Body side moldings.So like you said mine must be a pretty rare GN?

kirban 2 cents worth

Trying to keep things straight in my head. On the door jamb what was your built date? If its part of the last 10,000 then car was probably titled as a Grand National prior to that it was titled as a Buick Regal and GN was an option code which would account for one code.

Did you post a photo of your trunk ID label? If I recall you were trying to determine what possible options your car is lacking. If you did not post it please post it and built date from door jamb. On the plus side anything at 90 codes plus is a fairly well optioned example for a GN.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

With all the doom & gloom wouldn't it be nice if the USA TODAY
included comics in their daily paper?

 

[Dennis Kirban]

this is a fantastic thread Dennis


I forgot to mention that my dad still is the only owner on our 94 coded 1986 GN back on page 4. The only reason we ended up getting so many options on our GN was because the Huntington Beach Buick Dealer LAGGGGGED on the delivery of a GNX, my father was on the list and after waiting 6 months for the GNX my dad was pretty pissed. So he goes to the Dealer in Huntington and tells them he wants his money back yada yada yada because there was no GNX coming soon enough. So the owner of the dealership talked him out of walking away by selling us the 94 coded 1986 GN. I remember he claimed this GN was one of the highest optioned in California at the time. Little did I know that here we are over 20 years later, and I think so far that is that I still have one of the highest optioned 1986 GN's in all of California, not to mention we are the original owners of the car still. I am glad we got the 94 coded 1986 GN, it has a sunroof and touch button climate control! Plus my 16x9.5" Riken Mesh wheels with a 4.5" polished lip look better then the stock 16" GNX wheels anyways. Riken wheels are made in Japan just like the BBS and are aluminum wheels so they are incredibly light for their size. 295' BFGs fit perfect on them in the rear and I didn't have to notch the frame at all, just custom made the back spacing on the wheels and wa la! Fits like a glove.


again Dennis thank you for this read, excellent reading!

kirban 2 cents worth

Appreciate the nice compliments, 94 codes is quite a lot on a GN. Interesting tidbit since you are from Huntingdon Beach, Molly had his office there at one time Molly being the individual who designed the GN for Buick including the power six (turbo) emblems that adorn the GN.

My Kirban style GNX wheels came from the same town also back in the early 1990s. I have been there a few years ago when I took a 9,206 mile road trip in my 99 Vette. Your expressways were a nite mare!

The stock GN wheels were nothing to get excited about, poor chrome quality not to mention 28lbs per wheel.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com
Onwed a few over the years, some even never leaked.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

I may just take you up on your offer Dennis. And I agree about the paper vs hard drive comment. I have a well known publisher of a few car magazines back in my old neighborhood. It was his opinion that a Buick only resource book would be a no seller. Not enough interest to justify it, or in other words I'd be writing for free. Now if I included all G-Bodys than I'd be able to buy that GNX at Barrett Jackson. Lets face it. The Chevy is mightier than the Buick any day ofthe week.


I have several SPID labels in the files with ZR6. Now at first I thought it was just a "check" code used to make sure the computer was thinking or what I call a "Wild Card" code as I've seen some oddball codes on our cars too. But than one day I recieved a call from a gentleman who just happened to have his build sheet from a 84 T-Type and it has ZR6 Show Car printed out on the option list. To bad he wasn't computer sauvy otherwise he would have e-mailed me a scan. Why he couldn't mail me a photo copy I don't know. But the strange thing was he couldn't tell me who the ordering dealer was. Now I'm big into Rivieras. The SPIDS are full of codes but not as many as ours since they don't have 20 black out molding codes. Now what has always puzzled me was that a few have Buick Motor Division as the delivering dealer. The only thing that they have in common is that the build dates are fairly early in the model year. I'm assuming Factory Executive Demos. It would be great if one of these ZR6 owners would spend the $50 to have Historical Services run the invoice and see who the delivering dealer is. That might solve this "Show Car" issue once and for all. Let's put it this way. There seems to be an awful lot of show cars out there if you ask me. Heck for all I know maybe more than Limiteds with tan leather interiors if Dennis' figures are correct.

kirban 2 cents worth

I agree with you Eric too many based on what has been written "pop" up with the show car code of ZR6 so that code may cover several possibilities. Its unfortunate, that we and others are not looking at this in 2009 and the Flint operation is long gone.

My friend runs and operates PHS which is the Pontiac Historic Services and has since its inception. Several years ago he tried to interest Buick and Chevrolet with no luck. Chevy by this point in time would be a nightmare as their are too many high dollar phony examples running round.

Even today in the GTO world people make up phoney PHS papers making it necessary for potential buyers of high dollar tri-power 4-speed GTOs get their own documents first from PHS to confirm the car they are possibly buying is the real "McCoy".

As to writing, the mistake many authors make is they do the writing and a publisher fronts the money to do the printing and promotion therefore the writer settles for a initial fee and so much a copy based on the print run. The publisher however, assumes all the risks.

That is the way probably 90% of the automotive books are done. Look at any automotive book you will see a publisher listed. In my case we published and printed my books with no publisher since I knew we could market the book. Obviosuily printing gets cheaper the more you print every time. You have to print at least 1,000 copes at a clip to make it work.

Granted the Turbo Buick is a small market but it does work. With the trunk ID codes that would cross over to all the G bodies which gives you a wider market and you would hit the Monte Carlo SS group and the Olds 442 group.

If you do something that runs say under 100 pages it could be done by a high quality copy center and bound and you could run 100 copies at a clip. Key is to have a great cover shot in color. Unlike parts it sells to wider market and not affected by time of the year or even if customer owns the car.

The hardest part, again from experience is not only starting to gather notes, but being able to stick at it to get it done and having someone really to proof read it. Writers block can happen. My wife has done not only my books but others for other people as well.

One final note I stand behind my 1986 counts on the tan and grey leather in the 1986 Regal T-Types. They were not Limited as you imply above. In 1986 they were not Limited Turbo Regals. Had I known that my key source and his sources was going to go away I would have done a lot more to assure we had more available records.

Your into Rivs, I have the prototype turbocharged emblems that came on the turbocharged version Rivs. Molly also did that emblem as well way back when.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

One interesting thread and it keeps going

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

While still on the subject of the trunk ID label here is one other factor that is on approximately 200 of the 1984-1987 Turbo Regals. This addition was not done until a few years ago and happened twice.

As many of you know we have had Molly come to several of our Reunion events. Molly for those of you that do not realize it designed the actual prototype Grand National for Buick back around 1983. First it was a red then was painted black. Looking back Molly had a chance to purchase the car from Buick but declined never realizing that the car would have such a major influence in future years.

As a clever idea on two different events we did we had him sign the trunk ID label and date it for attendees (free). We then stamped it with a stamp that said Molly signature series one year and I think Signature series in the other year. We even had owners come bringing their trunk lids if their car was not driveable.

So, their is about 200 plus cars out there that carry that signature. In the Vette world they usually have them sign the plastic fuel rail covers. The Shelby people the glove box door and I believe he gets a hefty sum of money for his signature that goes to charity.

I remember seeing a Delorean signed by John Delorean a few years back who has since now passed away.

Any time you can get the person responsible for designing the car its worth it to have them sign it.

On a side note Molly does a lot of work for Toyota. In 1989 Toyota wanted a new logo for a new car that was coming out. He did the Lexus logo that you see on every single Lexus. (The oval with the L)

I kid him and said you should have gone for 10 cents a car on the Lexus deal you would be a rich person today instead of a flat fee. By the way these are true stories.

Still nobody under 52-51 count and no one over 98 count on the trunk ID label.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Buick was consistent no two body gaps are the same!

 

[sonseeker]

Build date 12/10

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

To answer the above sonseeker. Your count shows 89 codes. Unless I counted wrong. A very loaded GN for sure. Where did you get the built date from? Reason I ask because on the drivers door jamb are two labels one label will show the built code is a month and year. Not that critical because you show a WE2 code for GN so your car is not part of the last 10,000 built in 1987 assuming everything is correct.

The last 10,000 I am 99% certain would not show WE2 code on the trunk ID label since all were built as GNs. I am sure if I am wrong someone will correct me.

I see two options missing from your list the engine block heater and the trunk kit B48.

On the floor mats judging from the GM price associated with your codes you have the better ones that have the metal insert in them. Am I rite on this?

You have the heavier steel bumper supports instead of the lite weight aluminum ones which would be code VD6 and VD7. Not an option but a great weight savings especially since you have a GN with steel rims, power seat and the heavy astroroof option.

That is all I see for missing options on your loaded GN. Not sure if you have the window sticker but that was a pricey GN in its day maybe $18,900 or in that ballpark price wise.

The basic man. sug. price was $11,976.00 The highest dollar option was the GN package which added $3,574 to the tab. So basically, it took about $15,600 to buy a stripped out 1987 GN in 1987 unless dealer added an "adjusted market value sticker". So, your car has a good $3,000 or better in options to the total just off the top of my head. Your radio option was costly also.

To compare as to the value a basic new 1987 LeSabre Limited had a man sug that was within a few dollars of what a stripped out GN was. We all know what was the better deal.

kirbanperfomance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

No one yet showing below 52 or higher than 98 codes.

Here is a tidbit about door edge guards. In 1986 all the Turbo Regals had the black out package no chrome door edge guards was offered so only B91 door edge guards where available (black). In 1987 on the Turbo-Ts chrome package was offered and now you could get chrome door edge guards which would be code B-93. These were metal. Several aftermarket varieties exist usually not made in metal and are wider than the factory version.

 

[JOHNDEEREGN]

My last 87 GN I sold went to Dallas Tx (suburb) to the son of a gentlemen that was one of the origional founders of Motorola...... or so he said.

The door jam sticker showed a build date of 12/87.....

had to be one of the last produced.

 

[djj624]

Anyone know what these codes are. I was able to decipher all of them but couldn't find these. FFL, PON, T1H, UA1, UX1, V73, YS1, YT9, ZR6, 6YT, 7YU, 829, 9HP.

Thanks
Dennis

 

[salvageV6]

The build date (week) is on the cowl tag near the drivers wiper.

Top left hand number letter code.

Year, month, week.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Anyone know what these codes are. I was able to decipher all of them but couldn't find these. FFL, PON, T1H, UA1, UX1, V73, YS1, YT9, ZR6, 6YT, 7YU, 829, 9HP.

Thanks
Dennis

kirban 2 cents worth

see earlier post on the ZR6 appears to be a car show related car possibiliy ( see Erics earlier post. UA1 means high capacity battery V73 reads vehicle statement usa/canada PON stands for Pontiac (final assembly point) (that code should be on every 1986-1987 Turbo Regal code).

Usually numbers that start with a 6 or a 7 such as your 6YT and 7YU refers to the front springs.

FFL is for Flint and that should also be on everyones label as that is where Buick gave birth to your Turbo Regal.

YT9 I believe is connected to something interior related.

I am about 95% sure on my above statements. Again I don't claim to know everything, but enough to keep it interesting.

Hope that helps you.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

I think most original GN owners checked the box that said "Yes I want that orange peel look in the paint".

 

[Dennis Kirban]

kirban 2 cents worth

Now that readers are getting more familar with their car. Let me throw this question out there.

It is a relatively easy question so Eric and Salvage V6 please hold back to see how this flies so others have a chance.

On an original 1986 or 1987 Grand National the power six or turbo six emblem appears a total of how many times on the car?

Game clock is ticking.....


kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Trying to keep my closing line different each time.
Past owner of a number of 1986-1987 Turbo Regals.