what does it take to make a TR rev?

[gimmie11s]

hey guys-

i have a general question for you all:

Has anyone, or does anyone, have a TR that spins to say 7-7500 rpm?

What brings me to this question is simple. I've been browsing through the turbo tech and have found that a good portion of you run pretty big turbos. Some of which are straight t4's with q-trim turbine wheels and such. When do you see full boost by?

It would seem to me that some of you MUST have high revving motors to take advantage of those HUGE turbos!

On my car im running a mitsubishi/garret hybrid. The turbine wheel is a mitsu td06h and its mated to a garret t04e 50 trim compressor wheel. the combo is good for 500 hp but im guessing my car is in the 350-400 whp range. (last time i dynoed it she layed down 365 whp, ive since made some changes).

anyway, my car spools around 3700 rpm, the power doesnt go away, however, until 7500. i couldn't imagine my turbo spooling around 3700 and then having to shift right away at 5500. 5500 is right in my sweet spot. of course it would be MUCH worse if my turbo were a straight t-4 as previously mentioned regarding your cars....

FWIW, i will own a TR someday, just as soon as the intial buy in on nice examples drops a little....

-dom

 

[turbo buicks]

to make a TR rev high youd need at least a bigger roller cam. id also say maybe get a forged crank (less flex at hi rpm's) and a strong bottom end/better block. some good heads would also help.

 

[Ormand]

The Buick V6 is NOT a high reving engine. The Stage I or Stage II block, with matching heads, could go to 7500 rpm, but the stock block/crank/heads will not take this rpm. The stock crank is cast, as are the stock rods. Bearings are narrow, and oiling system is not real good. But with a turbo, there is no need to rev it up. The name of the game is mass flow. More lbs/hr=more horsepower. You can get more by reving higher, or by turning up the boost. With Buick engine, you turn up the boost. The stock turbo is sized for about 12 lbs, maybe 15. If you do the mods and the tuning to run 18 lbs, or 20, or more, then you can flow more air, and use a bigger turbo. No need for high rpms. Just make lots of torque at low rpm, and look in your rear view mirror at those high reving ricers.

 

[FlyinGN]

that reminded me of that pep boys sponsered tv show called "hi rev tuners" LOL What morons..

 

[Garycar]

The Buick turbo "half dozen" does not require high revs to make power. Its a torque motor that loves load. Both my original 3.8 motor (have it in storage and its in great shape) and stage 1 motor that currently resides in my GN ran in the 10's without exceeding 5500 rpm although the Stage 1 motor might have exceeded 5500 at the top of 3rd gear at 134 mph but if so not by much. If you are interested in running faster than the 10's you might require higher revs.

 

[gimmie11s]

Originally posted by Ormand
The Buick V6 is NOT a high reving engine. The Stage I or Stage II block, with matching heads, could go to 7500 rpm, but the stock block/crank/heads will not take this rpm. The stock crank is cast, as are the stock rods. Bearings are narrow, and oiling system is not real good...........

.......No need for high rpms. Just make lots of torque at low rpm, and look in your rear view mirror at those high reving ricers.

That's dissapointing to hear about the stock block. What kind of hp will a stock bottom end hold? i had aspirations of building a high hp (600-800) TR... i guess ill have to build the bottom to do so....

There are PLENTY of buicks that will put me in their rear view.... your car, however, is probably NOT one of them....

then again, since my car was fully manufactured and built in the good 'ol U.S. of A, your probably not talking about me....

-d

 

[broke1]

What does it take to make a TR rev???

$$$$$$$$ and lots of it

 

[19TTA89]

Originally posted by gimmie11s
hey guys-

i have a general question for you all:

what does it take to make a TR rev?

-dom

MONEY!!!!

 

[jastrckl]

Our motors are torque monsters, and can spool bigger turbos than the mitsu****su 2.0L since we have a pile more displacement... 3.8L. Nearly double. You throw all that together, and you can muscle through some pretty numerically low gears and haul arse without winding up the motor.

 

[Pronto]

I think that is what makes the TB so cool. You don't have to wind it out. For a typical v-8 to wind out (6500+) you need more expensive parts that are lightweight and stronger and a low rear end gear which also equals more wear, maintainance and no power for around town driving. Having gobs of torque down low is best for the street and not bad at the strip either. It's just not the ideal for strickly strip racing cars. Some of the best old muscle cars were torque monsters not nessasarily high hp engines. GM put out a slew of 400-455 engines that were loads of fun on the street but not great dragrace engines. Yes, they can be made to go to high rpm with $$ parts. I would rather go 12s and not have to rev to 6500 rpm like a sbc.

 

[Buick Mark]

The only reason to rev a any motor sky high is to suck air in and push exhaust out faster, Turbo charged engines dont require that, the turbo does all that at a much lower RPM. Diesels are low rpm slugs without turbos (like a stock non turbo 3.8) thats why all diesels are turbo charged, they're still low RPM engines, but make huge horsepower and MOUNTAINS of torque wayyy before 3000 RPM. Enjoy the low RPM horsepower and big torque the Turbo 3.8 makes, plus the longevity that comes without having to rev the bags out of it every time you get into boost Mark

 

[Ormand]

That's dissapointing to hear about the stock block. What kind of hp will a stock bottom end hold? i had aspirations of building a high hp (600-800) TR... i guess ill have to build the bottom to do so....

I guess I'll have to say this really simple, to that you will understand. The Buick, and turbo engines in general can build horsepower WITHOUT high rpms. To go past 600 hp, the bottom will need the steel crank girdle, and you would need an aftermarket cam (most use rollers because the Buicks are prone to wipe lobes at high spring pressures) That horsepower should get a really good car into the mid 10s to the mid 9s. And if you check the records, there are a number of stock block cars in the 10s. A few in the 9s, but that's pushing the limits. If you check the recipes at GnTType.org, you will even see some into the 10s without the lower end mods.
Since my own car has 177,000 miles on the stock turbo and the stock trans, and rear end, I'm not even tempted to try to show you my tail lights.

 

[gimmie11s]

Originally posted by Ormand
Since my own car has 177,000 miles on the stock turbo and the stock trans, and rear end, I'm not even tempted to try to show you my tail lights.

hahahahaha..... sounds good enough to me. although, if it were to happen, im not sure if it would be you or me that would break... ive got 172k on mine!!

the whole displacement thing is key. you all posses almost TWICE the cubes as me so that means your air pump (engine) will move almost twice the air at any given RPM. thats exactly how you get those big turbos to spool. much more air spinning those turbine wheels...

what kind of compression does a stock TR run? at what rpm will a properly prepped car recieve full boost with, say, a 60-1 turbo?

 

[turbo buicks]

stock TR compression is 8:1. spool with the auto trans is highly dependent on converter stall speed. for a te-60 turbo a 3000 stall is a good stall i hear.

 

[ijames]

With a 3000 stall converter and say a 60-1 turbo (okay, a PTE54 with 60-1 compressor) full boost by about 4200 rpm in first gear launching at about 2900 rpm (mine spools a little slow). Shifting at 5000-5300 the engine never drops below 42-4400 after that, and once spooled in first the boost never drops off on the shifts. Guys with 3200-3400 stall converters spend the whole pass after launch between 5000-5500 rpm.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Originally posted by gimmie11s
hey guys-

Has anyone, or does anyone, have a TR that spins to say 7-7500 rpm?

....My car spools around 3700 rpm, the power doesnt go away, however, until 7500....

-dom

As I read this post, a couple questions come to mind: Your converter stall? Your Tach (unreliable stock, or, aftermarket)? Your boost guage (unreliable stock, or, aftermarket)? Do you have a condition that inhibits turbo spooling (too rich, exhaust leaks, low converter stall, etc.)? Mismatched turbine wheels (turbine wheel/air flow mismatched for the 3.8)?

 

[gimmie11s]

Re: Re: what does it take to make a TR rev?

Originally posted by lburou
As I read this post, a couple questions come to mind: Your converter stall? Your Tach (unreliable stock, or, aftermarket)? Your boost guage (unreliable stock, or, aftermarket)? Do you have a condition that inhibits turbo spooling (too rich, exhaust leaks, low converter stall, etc.)? Mismatched turbine wheels (turbine wheel/air flow mismatched for the 3.8)?

its a mitsubishi eclipse.... see sig...

 

[77tech9]

The reason the eclipse can "keep up" with a TR is because of the lightness, and probially the wing keeping the back tires on the ground.

If you want a TR to compete then I would go with at least a 2 foot spoiler enhancement.

 

[BOOSTD]

Ive got a TE-44 (little smaller than TE-60) and a 2800 stall convertor. I reach full boost (18#'s) at about 3000 or so. From then on, its full boost through all the gears. As previously mentioned, its not the pressure, but the volume of the incoming air. More boost is not always better. A ported engine will run faster with 12# than a non ported engine running 19#.

BOOSTD

 

[gimmie11s]

Originally posted by 77tech9
The reason the eclipse can "keep up" with a TR is because of the lightness, and probially the wing keeping the back tires on the ground.

If you want a TR to compete then I would go with at least a 2 foot spoiler enhancement.

my car weighs 3300 lbs with me in it. it has gone 114 mph... you do the math....

if i were you, i certainly would not be advertising the fact that my car runs 13.8 at a measley 96 mph AND it has modifications. Hundreds of STOCK tr's have accomplished that...

Put the crack pipe down before you run your mouth