WHAT KILLS COILPACS?

[calais1965]

Problem is coilpacks broke at wot.
What causes coilpack failure , heat,too small alternator?
Is there better coilpacs?

 

[northerngn]

heat water and or both

 

[TurboDave]

Heat and vibration.

 

[scgnx2]

I would bet heat is a major factor in failing coilpacks.
Look at the Bob Bailey ignition module system.
My next purchase when my current coilpack fails and it will.

 

[thenasty6]

i was told on my last one that it died because the ground wire on the battery came lose so car tried to use the coil pack as next inline ground and burned it up.
after replacing coil and ignition mod. i got new battery cables and never had the problem again.
my car is really picky

 

[xrunner123]

Poor quality in potting encapsulation which leads to voids. Temperature cycling/heat/vibration can also create separation of windings or core that can also lead to air voids. End result is corona discharge that eventually 'eats' away internally.

 

[calais1965]

Ground wires are good, we use delco packs, msd 8.8 wires, delco 43 plugs. We have broked several coilpacs, allways at track.
We have voltage boosters for pumps&injectors.
Would bigger alternator+coil booster harness help?
I have also thinked to build heatsink cooling plates for ignition module and coilpack.

 

[turbobitt]

Problem is coilpacks broke at wot.
What causes coilpack failure , heat,too small alternator?
Is there better coilpacs?

This is just a guess on my part.
1 - bad grounds
2 - Possibly dirty voltage from a bad charging circuit, voltage regulator/alternator with a bad diode or something.

Allan G.

 

[we4Mateo]

This is just a guess on my part.
1 - bad grounds
2 - Possibly dirty voltage from a bad charging circuit, voltage regulator/alternator with a bad diode or something.

Allan G.

x2, seems to always be electrical problems that breaks them on the cars I've seen anyway. Good electrical system and they still wear out from the reasons posted above.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Low power and high load.

You can hot wire the cp/mod for added insurance. Allot of guys here have done it.

 

[thenasty6]

what help me is i added an extra ground to the car from the block of the motor to the body of the car. havent had the problem since. its like it needed a better ground when i started upgrading certain things.

 

[TurboBuRick]

The negative battery cable goes directly to the engine block. That makes the engine block the main system ground. The cp/mod are bolted directly to the motor. It don't get no better than that for a ground. Adding the strap from the block the the body just grounds the body better. Not going to effect the cp/mod IMO.

 

[thenasty6]

The negative battery cable goes directly to the engine block. That makes the engine block the main system ground. The cp/mod are bolted directly to the motor. It don't get no better than that for a ground. Adding the strap from the block the the body just grounds the body better. Not going to effect the cp/mod IMO.

worked for me guy, its a sugestion plus if your useing a finer wire and larger gauge it does improve the ground for the motor. like i said i was going threw coil packs and when i finally added the wire, ive never had the problem again.

 

[TurboBuRick]

OK

 

[Nick Micale]

My "experienced" guess would be heat is the major factor in the coil pack, actually the module, failure.

Since we have experienced these failures from the 90's with our intense summer heat is why I make that statement. GN's from other parts of the country do not have the same failure rate as we have seen.

I have replaced many modules, one this weekend when it was 108 deg, that are fine until the weather is hot and the engine breaks down about 4000 RPM. When I did a long road test in the cooler AM hours, it was fine.

On a GN that was a driver 20 years ago, I experienced my first failure when it would mis-fire when hot, not just warm.

The first thing I did was the "old school" trick of removing the rubber seal from the cowl at the base of the windshield so engine heat would not be trapped especially around the coil pack. That worked for that module except on HOT days in excess of 100 degrees so it was eventually replaced.

A simple test on a hot day is to put your hand at the base of the windshield with the engine hot and running. Remove the rubber strip and feel how much heat is now flowing out from under the hood.

If you want your module to last longer, remove the rubber strip.

 

[A2000RICH]

My "experienced" guess would be heat is the major factor in the coil pack, actually the module, failure.

nick is 100% correct about the cause of coil pack failure----- its "HEAT"----- things like dirty electricity, bad grounds, weak alternators etc are just wrong guesses based on random luck and circumstances--------the facts are------the coil pac in our cars is just a simple transformer-------transformers have been around for over 100 years and there is virtually nothing that we do not understand about them--------as far back as the 1920's studies were done at Western Electric on transformer life and some basic facts were discovered and they have proven true ever since------bottom line is: "transformer insulation life is a function of temperature and time spent at that temperature"-------of course for the sake of this explanation obvious things such as mechanical breakage and corrosion are overlooked--------failure of a transformer is caused by insulation failure that creates an internal short that causes a localized extreme temperature rise and total failure due to melting or burning of the windings-------a transformer that sits on a shelf and one that never exceedes 150 degrees will last virtually forever (100+ years is considered forever in the electronics world) if it is manufactured with materials that are standardized in the transformer industry -----------the GN coil pack would fall into this catagory--------every 10 degrees C or 18 degrees F temp rise above 150F (65C) will cause a reduction in life of HALF up to about 350 F where the life expectancy starts to shorten exponentially------just think 150f =100yr+ 168f = 50 yr 186f= 25yr 204f=12yr 222f=6yr 240f=3yr 258f= 1.5yr 275f=<1yr ---------now remember these numbers are for continuous operation at a steady temp which does not happen with our cars so the average temp is lowered due to down time but thermal cycling introduces complications of its own that are even more complex but nevertheless transformers only failure mode is from HEAT-------above 500+ degrees almost immediate failure can be expected---- -remember that the temperature that we are talking about is the hottest spot inside the internal windings not the ambient temperature--------too busy right now to go into more detail but you can take this to the bank RC

 

[turbobitt]

nick is 100% correct about the cause of coil pack failure----- its "HEAT"----- things like dirty electricity, bad grounds, weak alternators etc are just wrong guesses based on random luck and circumstances--------the facts are------the coil pac in our cars is just a simple transformer-------transformers have been around for over 100 years and there is virtually nothing that we do not understand about them--------as far back as the 1920's studies were done at Western Electric on transformer life and some basic facts were discovered and they have proven true ever since------bottom line is: "transformer insulation life is a function of temperature and time spent at that temperature"-------of course for the sake of this explanation obvious things such as mechanical breakage and corrosion are overlooked--------failure of a transformer is caused by insulation failure that creates an internal short that causes a localized extreme temperature rise and total failure due to melting or burning of the windings-------a transformer that sits on a shelf and one that never exceedes 150 degrees will last virtually forever (100+ years is considered forever in the electronics world) if it is manufactured with materials that are standardized in the transformer industry -----------the GN coil pack would fall into this catagory--------every 10 degrees C or 18 degrees F temp rise above 150F (65C) will cause a reduction in life of HALF up to about 350 F where the life expectancy starts to shorten exponentially------just think 150f =100yr+ 168f = 50 yr 186f= 25yr 204f=12yr 222f=6yr 240f=3yr 258f= 1.5yr 275f=<1yr ---------now remember these numbers are for continuous operation at a steady temp which does not happen with our cars so the average temp is lowered due to down time but thermal cycling introduces complications of its own that are even more complex but nevertheless transformers only failure mode is from HEAT-------above 500+ degrees almost immediate failure can be expected---- -remember that the temperature that we are talking about is the hottest spot inside the internal windings not the ambient temperature--------too busy right now to go into more detail but you can take this to the bank RC

Although there may be some truth to your statement it is way to general. That would make every aotomotive coil suspect and the frequency of failure would be much higher on every car out there. There is more to this that what you are eluding to. Something more specific to the design of this coil pack. The fact that it is mounted and suspended on a bracket from the factory gives it a fighting chance to survive compared to a COP set-up mounted to a hot valve cover, or those old 60-80 era cars with the coils mounted to hot iron intake manifolds.

Allan G.

 

[A2000RICH]

Although there may be some truth to your statement it is way to general. That would make every aotomotive coil suspect and the frequency of failure would be much higher on every car out there. There is more to this that what you are eluding to. Something more specific to the design of this coil pack. The fact that it is mounted and suspended on a bracket from the factory gives it a fighting chance to survive compared to a COP set-up mounted to a hot valve cover, or those old 60-80 era cars with the coils mounted to hot iron intake manifolds.

Allan G.

nothing general about my statement at all-------can't get any more specific than: heat is what kills coil packs-----and actually heat is what causes failure in almost all electronic components/circuits---------you are right that they are all suspect----------every automotive coil is eventually going to fail---------the more heat and the longer the exposure the shorter the life------ PERIOD-------the heat is going to break down the insulation and it will cause the windings to fail---------it is important to understand the source of the heat can come from multiple sources--------ambient exposure is one----------higher underhood temps can certainly be a source--------operating the coil with bad wires can create excessive heat since if the normal path through the wire and plug to the engine block is interrupted the current can usually find another path internal to the coil------when the current takes this alternate path extremely high temps are generated if only for a few thousands of a second-------but if it happens enough times the exposure value adds up---------mounting to a hot engine part will probably raise the temp---------simply operating the coil will heat the internal windings quite a bit due to the flow of current-----------but one thing is certain and that is eventually the coils are going to fail from insulation breakdown caused by heat---------most of these pacs are well up in years and they are going to see an increased rage of failure if the cars are driven a lot

 

[davelostmissing]

A heatsink will help. A fan will help. A source of cooler air will help. A volt booster will make it worse if it raise the coil supply voltage.

 

[norbs]

Coil current is internally limited to about 7 amps increasing the voltage will reduce the charge time. The more resistance to spark caused by cylinder pressures ie high boost will drive the current/heat up in the coil module assembly and cause it to fail sooner on top of the other factors mentioned. Eliminate it and use a msd7 and distributor