XTSM - Extreme TSM

[quickt]

He stated final decision on 12/1 Lonnie so whatever would bring the car count up needs to be considered. Not knowing much about those engines and you saying 3550 is a good starting point then so be it.

If the rules are not written I will plead the case. 3800 Series 2 and 3 are improved versions of the 109 engine. For those who do not know were installed in most GM FWD cars in 1995 threw 2008. My observation is as follows. The block is hi nickle with 4 Bolt Mains and steel main caps. The oiling system is improved as is the cooling system. The Heads are symmetrical and come with larger valves than the 8445 heads. The heads more than likely flow better than an average ported iron not even close to ported aluminum. There are no aftermarket cranks so the stock cast 3.400 crank will need to be used bringing the CID to a whopping 234" The intake is restricted to FWD or F-body cast intake. (Since sheet aluminum would not be allowed) The heads bolts are 4 per cylinder 12mm slightly Larger than 109. Not 6 per cylinder like a stage engine. The short block is stronger than 109 but not as strong as stage. I agree and understand the 109 needs to get any break that is available. I also believe this little engine could be a viable option to the Buick Performance community in the near future. I do believe the strength of the block and possibly the improved cylinder heads that weight should be added. I think a fair weight should be 109 aluminum weight. The 3800 does not have the CID capability of the 109 or the head flow capability of the LC2 Aluminum Heads. Since I feel performance wise its in between iron 109 and aluminum 109 I would think aluminum weights would be a good starting point. If we know that weights will be adjusted for fairness I would think there is more if a case to start at the lower weight and add from there. I would like to say that the 3800 rule would bring in more cars but I am sure thats not the case. I only know of 3 running cars with them and I think I am the only one that is looking to run at this level.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

Tsm

I have been thinking about it some more maybe we do need to leave the weight like Jason said at first just to see how everything is going to play out. You will be able to push even the S2 3.8 a lot hader than the 109. So everybody pull together and lets get this going. This is A big change so everybody hang in there and we can make changes as we go.

 

[Kip]

Don, who are you addressing here? If it is me I will be glad to answer your question, but if it is not I do not want to waste my time.

See ya, Kip

 

[Kip]

Jason, the statemet we can adjust as we go keeps comming up. My question are you talking after every race or at the end of the season?

Thanks, Kip

 

[southern boost]

Well said Chris ,if people give this a chance it might work ,but don't shoot it in the foot before it start .I will be at the tb.com race heavy or light no fear and don't scream give me this or that.


Kip I try not to get in this stuff ,Jason has stated point blank this is startin point has he not ?

Why do you persist to keep on with" your changes" Why is your quest to do this ?

I have stay out of your class because I don't race ths do you plan to race tsm ?

I like what Jason has try to for the class, I will try my best to be contender next yr .


FINALLY IT IS STATED THIS IS A BEGINING POINT NOTHIN SET IN STONE .

COME ON GUYS .

 

[Sydwyndr]

Jason, the statemet we can adjust as we go keeps comming up. My question are you talking after every race or at the end of the season?

Thanks, Kip

Kip I would imagine it would be on a race to race basis depending on how many races there will be on the books. I would say each race or maybe each 2. Waiting to the end of the year for a new class would probably not be the best idea.

 

[III'S 87 GN]

I wish everyone would step back and lets work together to build this class up. I don't get a dime for any of the time or money I've put into this.


I just want more participation in the class period. This is an opportunity for everyone to give and get..



109 TSM racers will be given a weight brake, stage engines will get a weight penalty.


If after the first race we see something that needs to be changed we will change it to keep cars competitive. End of story.


I hope all of the guys that raced this year keep an open mind and come back out in 2012 along with a new group of racers that will be joining in on the fun too..

Jason, the statemet we can adjust as we go keeps comming up. My question are you talking after every race or at the end of the season?

Thanks, Kip

already said

 

[Yellow Brick]

Got to love a TSM rules discussion to get this place moving.

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3300- "8445" headed 109

3450- Alum production style head 109

3550- 3.8 Stage block any head

3650- 4.1 Stage block/ TA block

I say lock this in with these weights and put it in the beams and go from there. These weights make it easier for the current TSM racers to get down to weight while also enticing the S2 guys by narrowing the weight break by 50 pounds.

 

[Kip]

He has stated it is a starting point. I am just trying to make it a fairer starting point. If the goal is a 9.0-9.2 class how does it make sense togive acar that has already been 8.9x and tons of 9,0s a huge weight break?

If the rules are fair I will race TSM, it is not like I haven't before.

Thanks for your questions, Kip

 

[BobbyBuick]

Yep agree with the quiet guy !

got to love a tsm rules discussion to get this place moving.

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3300- "8445" headed 109

3450- alum production style head 109

3550- 3.8 stage block any head

3650- 4.1 stage block/ ta block

i say lock this in with these weights and put it in the beams and go from there. These weights make it easier for the current tsm racers to get down to weight while also enticing the s2 guys by narrowing the weight break by 50 pounds.

 

[sackracing]

Has the 67 turbo weight break been taken off the board?

 

[III'S 87 GN]

Has the 67 turbo weight break been taken off the board?

Nope !

 

[southern boost]

Kip what is fair pls. inlighten me .


I have a couple grudge racin buddies that own 2 stage 2 3.8 blocks with 4.00 bore some screw up in castin ,so would it be fair to give those blocks weight break .


Bottomline hard to police cubic in. ,so one weight, problem solved or you can run 109 just sayin .

Series 2 3.8 blocks lot stronger don't know bout heads gray area in with big boys until proven .

Kip once you did race TSM ,but no longer ,so try to make suggestions without be forth comin young man.

 

[baadgn]

Not enough info on that engine combo Lonnie, as you race we can make adjustments.

Im on the porch but just thinking out loud.....At what "et" would you start to make adjustments

 

[quickt]

I don't see where anyone would want to use alky in the class but I'm open to dropping the weight penalty for alky. If someone comes out with alky and just walks away with a race, then we can make changes to the rules. I want the racing to stay in the 9.0-9.20 range. With the 71 turbo I believe that will happen and the racing will be closer than ever.

Thought we were dropping the weight penalty for alky with agreement weight could be added.

 

[quickt]

Series 2 3.8 blocks lot stronger don't know bout heads gray area in with big boys until proven .

Randy why are the fastest cars in TSM afraid of a Production Iron Head BUICK V-6? Is it not just as easy to add the weight back on?

 

[quickt]

Im on the porch but just thinking out loud.....At what "et" would you start to make adjustments

That was my next question. How will it be determined?

 

[Kip]

Im on the porch but just thinking out loud.....At what "et" would you start to make adjustments

Excellent question.

 

[baadgn]

Set the bar....

Not trying to be funny...

I think its funny

 

[turbobuick]

Not enough info on that engine combo Lonnie, as you race we can make adjustments.

LMAO, is that kinda just like that turbo plug rule that got adjusted?