XTSM - Extreme TSM

[Bent6]

There is absolutely no way to make each and every person happy. I'm glad to see a few that were so against this idea in the other thread seem to have now changed their tunes. This is a huge step in the right direction IMO. The only thing to do here is to go with a set of rules most can agree on and fine tune as it goes - just like has already been stated multiple times. All the babies who want to take their balls and go home will just have to get over it.

I think the weights are good enough to start with as this is uncharted territory. If time allows, I would consider coming out for this class with a stage blocked engine - too soon to tell.

Looking over the proposed rules, I understand stock suspension mounting locations and tire size limits but what about frame rail/wheel tub modifications? Not talking about allowing back half cars but what about sectioned stock frames and/or mini tubs. I like the look of a car sitting down ON the tires instead of the bronco billy look.

 

[southern boost]

All I got to say bring it Iron Headed mafia in till the end !


let race don't be scared !

 

[southern boost]

Hey will with lil tires no need for that stuff ,my car sit level no notch or tubs .

let race who in ?

 

[steve hughes]

I will run a TA headed on center stage motor if the rules go that way.

 

[BobbyBuick]

I will run a TA headed on center stage motor if the rules go that way.

WOW woke up Someone!
Maybe we could just list 2 or 3 combo weights.Jasons ,Kips, and maybe a 3rd for a vote along with exhaust and other rules that are up in the air and have a vote for 2012? Glad to see it open up to Lonnie ,Steve and others for a bigger car count .
Steve there is a Billet wheel hpQ71 for sale on here now!

 

[turbobuick]

Chris Lyons what is,so funny got throw some neg. stuff in you funny ha ha .

I didnt say anything negative, I like what you guys are trying to do with the class. I seriously thought that was funny to tell a racer yeah go ahead spend $50k to build a car to race the class and we'll adjust your weight according to how you run when you get here. That is a pretty ridiculous statement to make to a racer and I found it rather amusing.

FYI Randy I have an iron head motor I might want to do something with so I am watching the rules.

 

[tom robison]

I gues I am going to sit back and watch how the rules progress, then I will decide if I am going to play next year.

 

[BobbyBuick]

I gues I am going to sit back and watch how the rules progress, then I will decide if I am going to play next year.

Same here but is thing dont work out Im a pretty good bracket racer and could go to Q16
Im not going to have a 9.20 car if we are making it an8.90-9,20 class I dont see how we are going to increase car count

 

[SGRIM]

Nothing Negative here. I think its a positive move for this class and I think Jason is sporting a Brass Pair for stepping outside the box. I am just Stating my case. Unfortunate for me as I am only fella with pos 3800 so I am on my own. Falling on deaf ears so I am done.

I would like to see this too. I know the future of this block, we don't have many options left out there... Short of buying a TA block one day it is going to come to this...

 

[KevinB]

Same here but is thing dont work out Im a pretty good bracket racer and could go to Q16
Im not going to have a 9.20 car if we are making it an8.90-9,20 class I dont see how we are going to increase car count

you will need to be in the 8.7 range I think to be in front here.

Another way to do it:

Keep all current wieght and rules.

Stage 2 must run a 67 turbo.

This way the ets don't get out of hand. I think numerous people running 8's may hurt the class. Let the series 2 stuff run at aluminum head wieght and see how they do.
A 3650 lb 9.0 car is dangerous.....or at least tsm people used to say that about 3550lb cars back when they were trying to get wieght dropped.

 

[11.20n1320]

Kevin that is very good input on the 67 for stage block cars.Jason what do you think?This would allow for the weights to be closer together. More importantly what does everyone else think?Lets see some feed back. North,South,East and West lets hear from you!!
DDay

 

[Detomaso71]

A 3650 lb 9.0 car is dangerous.....or at least tsm people used to say that about 3550lb cars back when they were trying to get wieght dropped.

Yep, the Pro Mod 88 rules required excess weight and the faster cars at 3400 in x275 the racers complained about the handling and dangerous weights on the car.
they are trying to get all the weights dropped to be fair and safe rather than add a lot of weight to the faster cars.
this kept me from buying the pro mod 88 until they change weights. would have to add 500 pounds in the trunk.

I would do this class just for an excuse to build a stage motor

 

[Sydwyndr]

Kevin you do make a very valid point. Are you stating just S2 to run 67 turbos OR all S1, S2 and T/A's?? I would allow the series II to keep the 71 at 3550. IF all stage cars ran the 67 and weren't competitive there could be 2 options:

1. Allow 71 and keep weight
2. Keep 67 and give weight break

 

[KevinB]

Kevin you do make a very valid point. Are you stating just S2 to run 67 turbos OR all S1, S2 and T/A's?? I would allow the series II to keep the 71 at 3550. IF all stage cars ran the 67 and weren't competitive there could be 2 options:

1. Allow 71 and keep weight
2. Keep 67 and give weight break

I would say any engine never offered in a production GM car.

Could also offer production blocks a 50 lb wieght break if the s2 67s get an advantage. 50lbs is alot easier to come by than 150-200lbs.


I guess it comes down to....does this class belong in the 8.70-9.00 range or the 9.00-9.30 range.

 

[southern boost]

Okay Chris no info on a combo like this how do you set weights WHEN no one knows ,if you want to race got to have startin point ,if stage blocks want in they have to be flexible and others to nothin written in stone .


The 67 thing don't know just another unknown have to start some where .

Then the weights thing why the big deal everyone i've spoken to said has they have to add weight ,if rules change the weight easily removed.
Then there is when will there rule change be done ( if neccessary) weeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllll you need data on the unknown ,so no data no startin point no changes the end


This stuff not even started, we got do this do that i doubt more then 1 or 2 stage cars even make the first race or two got to get started .

we got to start somewhere weights to light or heavy whatever start racin change at end of this year my idea .

WE HAVE TO HAVE INFO TO CHANGE LET RACE AND MAKE CHANGES .

 

[11.20n1320]

Should remove the 67 -109 block, turbo from the class , this way it wont take away from THS. The 67 on stage block cars would be all stage motors. This way it is a win win deal for both classes. It wouldnt take cars away from a class that has had good growth since started.If some one wants to step you have XTSM. This would keep the 109 block guys from spending the $$$ to make their cars lighter,and the stage guys from adding weight.
DDay

 

[Sydwyndr]

Should remove the 67 -109 block, turbo from the class , this way it wont take away from THS. The 67 on stage block cars would be all stage motors. This way it is a win win deal for both classes. It wouldnt take cars away from a class that has had good growth since started.If some one wants to step you have XTSM. This would keep the 109 block guys from spending the $$$ to make their cars lighter,and the stage guys from adding weight.
DDay

Nice point!! I would leave the 67 as an option for those maybe wanting to run under the THS weight

 

[turbobuick]

Okay Chris no info on a combo like this how do you set weights WHEN no one knows ,if you want to race got to have startin point ,if stage blocks want in they have to be flexible and others to nothin written in stone .


The 67 thing don't know just another unknown have to start some where .

Then the weights thing why the big deal everyone i've spoken to said has they have to add weight ,if rules change the weight easily removed.
Then there is when will there rule change be done ( if neccessary) weeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllll you need data on the unknown ,so no data no startin point no changes the end


This stuff not even started, we got do this do that i doubt more then 1 or 2 stage cars even make the first race or two got to get started .

we got to start somewhere weights to light or heavy whatever start racin change at end of this year my idea .

WE HAVE TO HAVE INFO TO CHANGE LET RACE AND MAKE CHANGES .

So you need info and data on everyone's combo so you can make rules that are fair? Fair for who?

You guys already have enough info and data you have the turbo for the class selected. I HIGHLY doubt a 274" 4.1 motor with a 71ish mm turbo on it will make significantly more power than the same motor with a smaller CI 109. As a matter of fact I believe an xTSM racer in Detroit did this and built a larger CI 4.1 motor with a TSM turbo on it and I don't believe he went significantly faster than he could've with the 109 motor. I am sure he is watching the thread maybe he can give some input.

You definitely wont have anything to worry about running 450# lighter with a 109 iron head combo that's for sure. I'm not saying a S2 block motor shouldn't have a weight penalty but don't cut the balls off them and hope they show because they likely won't.

I think a production iron head 3800 motor should run at production head production block weight. If you want participation maybe someone will show up. If he starts kickin everyone's ass with the combo then throw weight on him.

Anyway I'm not here to argue about rules I've had enough of that to last me a lifetime. No matter what you do you cant make everyone happy and racers are always going to bitch.

Pick something and roll with it.

 

[southern boost]

DDay this has nothin do ths you have guys runnin 67 now that don't fit ths they asked to run tsm ,if they do or don't, give the options so people can fit buddy.

 

[southern boost]

Your last 2 statment are dead on chris:biggrin: