2013 TSO Rules Discussion

[gnxtc2]

Racing Rules:

8. FUEL: Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed. No additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc. NOS bottle(s) shall not be on vehicle during competition or qualifying.

Cal Hartline

I was just talking shit about the scared to race me part. You must not know me . I also do this for fun. Seems like you might be the only one that didn't know. I went 8.3's at Bg and fuel had nothing to do with it. I have been faster on c16. I just don't see how people want to keep paying $17+ for race fuel when you can pay $3. Like I said before if it doesn't get voted in this year I won't race TSO. It just seems to me that the whole thing is dying anyway. Don't get me wrong I enjoy going to Bg and Reynolds to race against the same kinda cars but it is not a must for me. Everyone runs Q16 or C16 now. That fuel is never tested so anyone can also cheat with that. Now if you have to come to a race with a 8 car field and a $500 payout and cheat to win there is something wrong with you.
As far as the rules and me racing on e85. I have in previous years been to Reynolds with a pro mod 90 mm turbo and raced tso with it. Everyone racing knew about it and didn't care. I know more than once where the rules have been looked past so someone could race. It's funny how nobody cares until you win. LOL

You broke TSO rule #8.

Not trying to start anything but it was voted on last year and it happened anyway . I don't know that I would have said no at Bowling Green but not finding out until after you had won the event didn't seem like the right way to handle it . Was I was the only one that didn't know ?

And no I am not scared to race you . I just do this for the fun. Win or loose I don't care who is in the other lane.

The only problem I see with it is having to have a tester after every pass to be sure everyone has true e85.

I was in peer tech and also unaware of any discussions of E85 come up.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Grandpa George]

I also was in peer tech and heard nothing mentioned. Whatever happened to honesty and integrity ??? This thread was the first I have heard about E85 being run in TSO.

I wonder how the sponsors feel that pay out the purses.

George

 

[johnplogii]

I know this class is none of my business, but in most other heads up classes e85 falls in the gasoline category. It is available at the pump for daily driver cars.

 

[street-t]

You broke TSO rule #8.



I was in peer tech and also unaware of any discussions of E85 come up.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I don't think I broke that rule. Atleast the way I'm reading it. Q16 should also not be allowed because it is gasoline with an additive. E85 does not have alchohol. It is also sold at the same pump as 87 89 and 93 octane fuel for less than all of them.

 

[street-t]

I know this class is none of my business, but in most other heads up classes e85 falls in the gasoline category. It is available at the pump for daily driver cars.

+10000

 

[Grandpa George]

I'm not a chemist, but my limited understanding of E85 is that it's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol , I believe is another name for grain alcohol.
Perhaps we need to define fuel a little bit better in the rules. Just sayin'

George

 

[gnxtc2]

I don't think I broke that rule. Atleast the way I'm reading it. Q16 should also not be allowed because it is gasoline with an additive. E85 does not have alchohol. It is also sold at the same pump as 87 89 and 93 octane fuel for less than all of them.

Every gas (race and pump) has additives in it.

I have yet to see E85 sold anywhere in my area. You can not pump E85 in any vehicle, it needs to be designed for it hence the flex fuel rating.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Brad T]

Rule Change #3: A) Allow E-85 fuel
B) Allow any type of fuel
C) Don't change the fuel rule

This is what we voted on last year . Like I said I don't know if I cared .But it was against the rules we voted on and I wish every one would have been told .

 

[street-t]

I'm not a chemist, but my limited understanding of E85 is that it's 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol , I believe is another name for grain alcohol.
Perhaps we need to define fuel a little bit better in the rules. Just sayin'

George

It is ethanol and not alchohol. If it was it would be called just that. I know what it is. Some racers bend the rules in racing and use the wording in the rules to there favor. Does anyone think the outcome of the race would've been any different if I was running c16?

 

[street-t]

Every gas (race and pump) has additives in it.

I have yet to see E85 sold anywhere in my area. You can not pump E85 in any vehicle, it needs to be designed for it hence the flex fuel rating.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Well then if we go by the current rule we cannot run a lot of the fuel that is being used because the rules say no additives. In Florida on the Florida turnpike you can pump e-85 at every single service station. Not including the few hundred other stations that have it here. Yes you cannot pump e85 into any car.

 

[street-t]

Rule Change #3: A) Allow E-85 fuel
B) Allow any type of fuel
C) Don't change the fuel rule

This is what we voted on last year . Like I said I don't know if I cared .But it was against the rules we voted on and I wish every one would have been told .

Yes it was. Racers still ran q16 that has additives. So was I the only one breaking the rules? Also pump 93 octane across the country is e10 and contains 10 % ethanol. Is that illegal also?

 

[gnxtc2]

Quote from the 2012 Rules discusssions:

Sorry, I am out of town this week until Friday. Looking at the requests posted earlier, here's what I think you guys proposed:

Rule Change #1: A) Remove the weight penalty for liquid intercoolers
B) Don't remove the weight penalty for liquid intercoolers

Rule Change #2: A) Allow Ladder Bar suspension
B) Allow 4 link suspension
C) Allow Both
D) No change

Rule Change #3: A) Allow E-85 fuel
B) Allow any type of fuel
C) Don't change the fuel rule

Rule Change #4: A) Allow the exhaust to exit anywhere
B) Don't change the exhaust rule

Before we vote on it. I want to offer my opinions:
Last year we revamped the rules to be geared much closer to X275 Rules. Rule changes 2&3 would go against this. Also, if we vote A on Rule Change #3, I am not sure how I will police it without allowing Methanol, Ethanol, Propane, E-98, etc.. Remember once we allow something in, it's almost impossible to remove it.

Since Roy, Willard, and Ted A didn't show much interest in the class this year and haven't indicated they will race next year, I will limit voting to just last years TSO particpants:

Dave Fiscus
Manny Espino
Tim Szabo
Gary Harmon
Don Cruz
Billy T
Rob Irle
Brad Tennyson
Jason Cramer
Nick Piccione
Paul Dubois
O.C. Cantrell
Jr Turner
Tom Robison
Jason White

In order to keep things unbiased, please PM your votes. Once I have received all the votes, I will publicly post the voting/results

Results of the 2012 vote

I wasn't able to load the spreadsheet, so I will just type it up here:

BDCB Dave Fiscus
BDBB Manny Espino
BDCB Tim Szabo
BDCB Gary Harmon
ADCA Don Cruz
BDCA Billy T
BDCB Rob Irle
ADCB Brad Tennyson
BDCB Jason Cramer
BDCB Nick Piccione
ADCB Paul Dubois
BDCB O.C. Cantrell
BDCB Jr Turner
AABA Tom Robison
ADCA Jason White
BDCB Roy Garcia
Totals:
Rule1: A=5, B=11
Rule2: A=1, B=0, C=0, D=15
Rule3: A=0, B=2, C=14
Rule4: A=4, B=12

Bottom Line: There won't be any Rule Changes this year in TSO. Thanks to all of you that raced and voted

There you have it. E85 was was specifically voted on, not C16, Q16, etc, etc, etc.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[street-t]

Quote from the 2012 Rules discusssions:



Results of the 2012 vote



There you have it. E85 was was specifically voted on, not C16, Q16, etc, etc, etc.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I agree that it was voted on allowing any fuel not just e85. Rule # 8 still remained the same after the vote.

 

[we4Mateo]

It is ethanol and not alchohol. If it was it would be called just that. I know what it is. Some racers bend the rules in racing and use the wording in the rules to there favor. Does anyone think the outcome of the race would've been any different if I was running c16?

Ethanol is alcohol, just like methanol is also an alcohol.

 

[howdies86]

If u can buy it at the pump, how can it not be legal?! I like the idea of running "cheap" fuel. Keep it up!

 

[gnxtc2]

I agree that it was voted on allowing any fuel not just e85. Rule # 8 still remained the same after the vote.

I think you mis-read it. It was voted on any gasoline type, no E85.

Go tell the guys running X275 that they are not allowed to run Q16 because it has "additives"........see how far that'll get.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[street-t]

I think you mis-read it. It was voted on any gasoline type, no E85.

Go tell the guys running X275 that they are not allowed to run Q16 because it has "additives"........see how far that'll get.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

[/quote]










I'm sure it clearly states in there rules what fuel can and can't be run. Plus Tso racing is nothing like x275 LOL. The vote was to allow any fuel or not. Not just e85. Like I said before. I'ts cool if I can't run in Tso. I will not pay 15+ for fuel if there is no need to. To go to BG alone I spent like 300+ on c16 alone 2 years ago. Q16 is even more expensive.For some of you guy's that race your cars maybe twice a year that's cool. When my car is running I am at the track atleast 3 times a month. On Q or C 16 that is expensive.

 

[street-t]

http://x275.net/car-specs/

Here is the rules for x275. It clearly states no e85. It also says nothing about additives in gasoline. So Q16 would not be an issue.

 

[baadgn]

[/quote]










I'm sure it clearly states in there rules what fuel can and can't be run. Plus Tso racing is nothing like x275 LOL. The vote was to allow any fuel or not. Not just e85. Like I said before. I'ts cool if I can't run in Tso. I will not pay 15+ for fuel if there is no need to. To go to BG alone I spent like 300+ on c16 alone 2 years ago. Q16 is even more expensive.For some of you guy's that race your cars maybe twice a year that's cool. When my car is running I am at the track atleast 3 times a month. On Q or C 16 that is expensive.

if spending 200 extra stops you from coming to a TSO race so be it.....thats the dumbest thing i have heard in a long time we pour thousands of dollars into a TSO car. So 200 dollars extra for fuel is a piss in the bucket. You pour thousands into a duramax..... thousands into a ctsv.... thousands into a TSO car. But You wont race the class because you have to spend 50 dollars more for fuel per event. Run E85 at ur local shit and Q16 at TSO races pretty simple. unless ur scared to race another TSO car on Q16 ??????

 

[street-t]

if spending 200 extra stops you from coming to a TSO race so be it.....thats the dumbest thing i have heard in a long time we pour thousands of dollars into a TSO car. So 200 dollars extra for fuel is a piss in the bucket. You pour thousands into a duramax..... thousands into a ctsv.... thousands into a TSO car. But You wont race the class because you have to spend 50 dollars more for fuel per event. Run E85 at ur local shit and Q16 at TSO races pretty simple. unless ur scared to race another TSO car on Q16 ??????

Tony that is a good point but when I spend x amount of dollars on a mod I like to see a gain not feel like I got robbed. That is how I feel about spending 18 dollars a gallon for fuel when I could spend 3 dollars. It does the same thing for me with the same result without the hurt pocket. Oh and some spend more than others on there cars and might be into spending for no reason. I'm not one of those. I guess I will move on with my car to other things.