2013 TSO Rules Discussion

Sure seems to be a lot of defending going on for liquid intercoolers. Especially if they don't provide any performance advantage ...... hhmmm !!! Must be for the show n shine circuit. ??? ya think ? :cool:

VOTED
George,
you can come polish mine... maybe that will help with the performance advantage that is so obvious. So now that you know that both Buddy and Don ran air to air IC do you have a better understanding of air to air Intercoolers and their capabilitys and that on a 1500 hp car a liquid intercooler hasn't shown a "obvious" advantage.... Or are you still waiting on the fax from Kenny ?

P.s
George no need to worry........ Slim chance that in voting one of the top TSO cars are going to be given a 50 lb break... So chill out and let's go racing !!!!!
 
Not a proper comparison on the air to air vrs liquid intercooler.
Where the record runs made in 100 degree weather? I highly dought it.
The liquid intercooler well shine when it's a hot day at the track, i'm sure when it's 60 degree's out there well not be much if any advantage.
Colder air temps mean more power right?;)
 
Does anyone know how to reach Art Frye? I am missing 3 votes and have contacted two of them. His vote could make a diference on one or two rules
 
Thanks! I am just missing his vote and Nick's. All rules have been decided but one. I hope to post the results later tonight.
 
I didn't get Art's vote, but the rule changes have finally been decided. Here's the outcome:

#1 Exhaust rule:

14 A) No part of turbo exhaust may exit forward of engine flywheel area and a muffler is required (current rule)
8 B) Any exhaust/downpipe allowed. Muffler(s) optional (proposed change)
No change
#2 Car not meeting a rule:

16 A) If a car is not legal for the class, event participants vote to allow. If even one particpant votes against, the car is not allowed (current rule)
6 B) If a car is not legal in the class then it should not be allowed to qualify or run eliminations regardless of event car count (proposed change)
No change
#3 Fuel:

5 A) Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed (current rule) (Note: If this rule is voted in, rule will be reworded to eliminate E85, etc..)
17 B) Allow E85 fuel (proposed change) (Note: If this rule is voted in, it will ONLY be to allow E85 and NOT E98, Methanol, etc.. I WILL BE TESTING FUELS)
Rule changed

#4 Weights:

10 A) 3250# with a 50# penalty for a liquid IC for ALL participants (current rule)
12 B) Above Rule with 250# weight break for 85mm or smaller turbos (proposed change)
Rule changed
#5 Liquid Intercooler Penalty:

15 A) 50# weight penalty for liquid intercoolers (current rule)
7 B) Remove 50# weight penalty for liquid intercoolers (proposed change)
No change
#6 Wheelie Bar Penalty:

6 A) Wheelie bars allowed without any penalty (current rule)
16 B) 50# weight penalty for wheelie bars (proposed change)
Rule changed
 
I will add the changes to the rules and make sure they are worded correctly for the least amount of loopholes ;)

Here's how everyone voted:

BABAAA Richie Balcom
AABBAB Willard Brown
AABAAB Jason Cramer
BBABBB Don Cruz
AAAAAB Bobby Don
AABBAB Paul Dubois
AABAAB Manny Espino
AABAAB Dave Fiscus
Art Frye
AABAAA Gary Harmon
BABBBA Justin Hinderer
AABAAB Jimmy Morrison
BBABBB Bill Steurnagle
AABAAB Tim Szabo
AABABA Brad Tennyson
AABAAA George Thompson
BBABBB Billy T
BBABBB Jason White
BABBAA OC Cantrell
ABBBAB Rob Irle
AABBAB Nick Piccione
BBBBBB Tom Robison
AABBAB Jr Turner
 
I will add the changes to the rules and make sure they are worded correctly for the least amount of loopholes ;)

For me this is the fairest class on the rules because the RRA is not a racer in the class. Thank you Cal !!!!
 
Thanks. Holly is real glad it's almost over. I know why nobody else wanted to take the reins. Some of you guys were tough to track down, but it was nice catching up with everyone. Some interesting things that came up:

Some racers weren't aware of the proposals and rule changes until I contacted them. I'm not sure what we can do differently there.
Quite a few guys I spoke to said they wanted an option to eliminate wheelie bars completly from the class but nobody proposed it.
A lot of the guys were concerned about not allowing a cheater turbo (clipped 88, etc..) in thus making the faster guys faster
A lot of concern about policing fuel and how to enforce only gasoline type fuels and E85

Surprise votes:
The number of people voting for E85
Tim Szabo voting for wheelie bar penalty
Richie, Gary and Jimmy voting against turbo weight break
Don voting for turbo weight break
Billy voting to remove liquid penalty

Time to get the cars ready for next season. We had 18 diferent TSO racers last year. Hopefully 2013 is just as successful.
 
"Quote "
  1. So chill out and let's go racing !!!!!

Nice pun Tony ..... That was fun ..... now I'm going back into the shop and finish installing my new LIQUID INTERCOOLER Ya, Let's go racing ;)

George
 
Thanks. Holly is real glad it's almost over. I know why nobody else wanted to take the reins. Some of you guys were tough to track down, but it was nice catching up with everyone. Some interesting things that came up:

Some racers weren't aware of the proposals and rule changes until I contacted them. I'm not sure what we can do differently there.
Quite a few guys I spoke to said they wanted an option to eliminate wheelie bars completly from the class but nobody proposed it.
A lot of the guys were concerned about not allowing a cheater turbo (clipped 88, etc..) in thus making the faster guys faster
A lot of concern about policing fuel and how to enforce only gasoline type fuels and E85

Surprise votes:
The number of people voting for E85
Tim Szabo voting for wheelie bar penalty
Richie, Gary and Jimmy voting against turbo weight break
Don voting for turbo weight break
Billy voting to remove liquid penalty

Time to get the cars ready for next season. We had 18 diferent TSO racers last year. Hopefully 2013 is just as successful.

E85 was the hang up on me voting sooner. In the end I just want to keep the class alive . As long as I look in the other lane and don't see a gutted out drag car with five inch bull horns hanging out we can play.
 
Great........Now i will finish my TSO car.
I am looking for a two car hauler so i can run in tsm and tso.
Should be a fun season!!
 
So what is this clipped 88? Will it fit under my hood?

LOL. We are talking about a 47-88 style turbo with the tips clipped and a sleeve installed (or a new cover) so that it measures 85 mm. I have a customer with a large framed 76mm turbo done this way.
I will try and update the rules this afternoon to reflect the changes.
 
For me this is the fairest class on the rules because the RRA is not a racer in the class. Thank you Cal !!!!
+

That hurt Tony..
Stab-in-the-Back.jpg
 
sorry i missed the vote. been out of town on service call. rules sound good to me.
and i think Cal did a good job last year.
art frye
 
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