2016 Rules Thread

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

It cost less than 100.00 to plumb a wastegate in to the dp. If a hundred bucks is stopping someone from racing...we are in the wrong game

 

[sackracing]

The stage 2 head rule is going to go away, I believe that was a misprint.

 

[Mike Licht]

It cost less than 100.00 to plumb a wastegate in to the dp. If a hundred bucks is stopping someone from racing...we are in the wrong game

I am not sure what custom fabricators charge where you live but around here that's not going to happen, a 1.5" J bend is $59.99 alone http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1022_1065_1115 so while I get your point but lets be realistic about what things cost if you cant do them yourself. I still don't get the reason what this is such a big deal that it get plumbed back in, can someone explain that please?
Mike

 

[johnplogii]

If you're really trying nothing should be coming out of the wastegate anyways!

 

[HighPSI]

I'm curious, is M1 fuel allowed in the class? It says alcohol injection.

 

[sackracing]

Gasoline fuel only

 

[Mike Licht]

Put in a big ass nozzle and 30 lb injectors?

 

[HighPSI]

Thanks for clarifying. It says alcohol injection allowed, so it would be easy to consider running M1 fuel through the electronic injectors as alcohol injection. I just see lots of loop holes in the rules that could be exploited.

 

[sackracing]

That should say secondary alcohol injection I suppose. I'll address it if I figure out how to word it.

 

[sackracing]

I think I fixed it

 

[Mike Licht]

Times change, now you have a few guys with a 71 turbo that a new player can't even buy, Richie said he went faster with the 71. If you guys want the class to continue your going to have to open it up so new people can play, otherwise it dies. As one of the main sponsors over the years I can say I have made a large commitment, we do this to support Buick racing but at the end of the day we still need to justify the investment and see some return. We need more participation to do that. I know everyone is looking for some edge oedoes not want to change since they have a good combo, I am sure over time you will have fun racing yourself when no one shows and the sponsors disappear. This was an exciting year at the nats, I think we could see big things with a few changes

 

[HighPSI]

I think precision turbo has invested some money too. It can't be cheap casting all those Buick housings. It's a shame the other turbo companies don't share the same love for Buicks.
Although the 71 isn't available, there are options available that fit into the current rules.

 

[sackracing]

If someone could get another company to build a class legal turbo they should sell a few.

 

[Mike Licht]

The rules favor existing builds let's face it, they were made by the guys who already have built cars, all I am saying is if you guys want to keep racing you need to make some changes, and yes while precision has stepped up they are not making anything new housing wise for us all the devolpment is in vband and new stuff, that is where the market is. You guys have a turbo rule for a turbo no one can buy new, clearly some thing should be done. No reason why we can't breath some new life into this deal instead of the same guys doing the same thing and voting down every change so they don't have to change. The way things are now I doubt we will see any new cars coming in so its just a matter of time till TSM is dead.

 

[gnxtc2]

I have no dog in this fight but this class has deviated from intentions of the founder....Scott Simpson.

I wonder how many TSO cars with stock style heads will jump over to xTSM with a simple turbo swap.

Carry on

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[HighPSI]

The rules favor existing builds let's face it, they were made by the guys who already have built cars,

I disagree. I think the real TSM cars were built to the rules, not the other way around. We ran into this in TSO. If you keep changing the rules, it can actually hurt car count. I could be mistaken, but I believe the class with the most expensive cars to build also has the largest car count. With some stability, you know the rules and build your car accordingly, not build your car and change the rules to fit it. The proposed rule changes would open things up, but what currently built cars are you gaining by allowing turbos mounted anyplace with dumps out the fender? If none, then tell the new guys to build the car to the rules, instead of making the current dedicated group have to update their combinations.

while precision has stepped up they are not making anything new housing wise for us all the devolpment is in vband and new stuff, that is where the market is. You guys have a turbo rule for a turbo no one can buy new, clearly some thing should be done.

I think you are mistaken. Doesn't the turbo rule allow the new 68 & 72 turbos? Both of which, are readily available.

 

[sackracing]

I disagree. I think the real TSM cars were built to the rules, not the other way around. We ran into this in TSO. If you keep changing the rules, it can actually hurt car count. I could be mistaken, but I believe the class with the most expensive cars to build also has the largest car count. With some stability, you know the rules and build your car accordingly, not build your car and change the rules to fit it. The proposed rule changes would open things up, but what currently built cars are you gaining by allowing turbos mounted anyplace with dumps out the fender? If none, then tell the new guys to build the car to the rules, instead of making the current dedicated group have to update their combinations.



I think you are mistaken. Doesn't the turbo rule allow the new 68 & 72 turbos? Both of which, are readily available.

I don't see a Precision 72 available in three bolt on the price sheet or the website.

 

[sackracing]

Results are posted in Ballot thread

 

[696]

the exhaust housing should be looked at. A 4 bolt would allow the new 69MM SXE borg warner which will make the power of the precision 6870 for $899. You guys need options other than precision but the rules now exclude everyone else. The wastegate rule is another, who cares where the gate dumps? as long as it is safe. Make it easier for some new people to play and get in the class. $2500 turbos and custom fabrication puts most guys out. But a 109 block with stage 2 iron heads looks OK though.
Mike

Times change, now you have a few guys with a 71 turbo that a new player can't even buy, Richie said he went faster with the 71. If you guys want the class to continue your going to have to open it up so new people can play, otherwise it dies. As one of the main sponsors over the years I can say I have made a large commitment, we do this to support Buick racing but at the end of the day we still need to justify the investment and see some return. We need more participation to do that. I know everyone is looking for some edge oedoes not want to change since they have a good combo, I am sure over time you will have fun racing yourself when no one shows and the sponsors disappear. This was an exciting year at the nats, I think we could see big things with a few changes

Mike, I'm on the same page as you. To bad the 4 bolt didn't get voted in....this could have been a fun class to run in.

 

[sackracing]

I understand that the class has deviated from Scott's original setup, but it has also survived a long time. The two classes that did not change or adapt, TSE & TSS are gone now. Probably due to the fact that they never allowed any changes.

I've worked hard at trying to build this class up a little and make it something spectators want to watch and racers want to be a part of.

We've had 14 and 17 car fields the last two years and we've had good times as a group. Lots of new friendships and everyone has been great with helping their competitors. I've enjoyed it.
I was worried about the four bolt rule and how to keep the class in check without a big turbo running away from everyone. But eventually it's gonna happen if the Buick housings get too hard to get, and that will be the next step we have to take with the class.

I agree the the stage motors have not been competitive at the heavier weight yet. And we can try to see if the turbo housing is the actual limiter by evening the playing field.

Thanks to everyone who voted and thanks for the input from the people I've spoken with over the last two weeks. I'm always open to discussing what is best for the class.

And most of all thanks to the sponsors who have helped this grow. Our purse at BG was huge. I will always try to give back to our sponsors, everyone on the Internet is probably getting tired of my posts, but I'm gonna always put their names out there as a show of appreciation.
We need to give back to them by remembering these folks when we spend our money on parts and services.