4.1 stock block build

[earlbrown]

this looks simple but is very important, years ago Kenne Bell made a plate that redirected the bypass oil back, I always used them but they were a pain. Our friend Earl Brown came up with the "earl brown mod" and just drilled a hole to feed the bottom of the gears too. I am sorry I did not think of it first, it works great. and is pretty easy to d I use a 3/16 drill and make a slot I left it ragged so you can see. You can take a dremel and clean it up but frankly it works fine like this.

Mike, in that pic you did the 'earl brown mod' on the wrong side.

Don't worry, it will still help a little. On the high pressure side of the gears, only the one corner has access to the port to the filter adapter (since you like the HV covers, that flaw is even greater). The hole you drilled will let some of the pressure head to the filter if it wants to.

Actually without my mod the plate the other side of the gears get fed only during bypass (and they only get bypass oil and that's it).

 

[Mike Licht]

thanks for catching that Earl in my haste yesterday I grabbed the wrong picture. I never meant to post that as I have never drilled that side before I is something I wanted to try for a while. The other thing I left out which is optional is glass beading the gears, you must mask the shaft first! Glass bead removes the burrs from them, give the a nice finish to grab the oil and since the burrs are gone makes clearance set up to the oil filter adaptor plate easier. This is the correct picture I should have posted yesterday. Sorry for the confusion

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Mike, that cover looks to have a crack. To the lower left of the hole that was drilled, through the outer wall. That would be one oil leak that would drive one nuts trying to find.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[Mike Licht]

No crack just something in the picture

 

[earlbrown]

thanks for catching that Earl in my haste yesterday I grabbed the wrong picture. I never meant to post that as I have never drilled that side before I is something I wanted to try for a while. The other thing I left out which is optional is glass beading the gears, you must mask the shaft first! Glass bead removes the burrs from them, give the a nice finish to grab the oil and since the burrs are gone makes clearance set up to the oil filter adaptor plate easier. This is the correct picture I should have posted yesterday. Sorry for the confusion

You're on the right track with that hole. On my pumps, I never drill the hole in the idler gear. If you look at the filter adapter, there's a funnel shaped area that channels high pressure oil to the pin area on the cover. With high pressure there, it forces oil up the shaft and to the low pressure side clearance area on the other side of the gear. (that's why you never see any wear on that pin even though it spins trillions of revolutions over it's life).

 

[Ttype6]

years ago Kenne Bell made a plate that redirected the bypass oil back. Our friend Earl Brown came up with the "earl brown mod" and just drilled a hole to feed the bottom of the gears too.

Man,I wish people would stop claiming that this hole does what the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell booster plate does. Drilling this hole bypasses the last turn that the oil has to make on it's way from the pick up to the gears. The booster plate's goal isn't to re-route the bypass oil. It's goal is to allow the gears to ride on a flat surface to make the pump more efficient. Since the plate gets rid of the opening that the bypass oil used to flow through,to get re-introduced into the oil pump,the oil had to be re introduced somewhere else. It gets re-routed into the oil intake area. Again,there is no mod that replaces/duplicates what the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell booster plate does.

 

[we4Mateo]

Man,I wish people would stop claiming that this hole does what the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell booster plate does. Drilling this hole bypasses the last turn that the oil has to make on it's way from the pick up to the gears. The booster plate's goal isn't to re-route the bypass oil. It's goal is to allow the gears to ride on a flat surface to make the pump more efficient. Since the plate gets rid of the opening that the bypass oil used to flow through,to get re-introduced into the oil pump,the oil had to be re introduced somewhere else. It gets re-routed into the oil intake area. Again,there is no mod that replaces/duplicates what the Ruggles/Kenne-Bell booster plate does.

It def doesn't do the same thing, but doesn't it address the same issue/s? There's more than one way to skin a cat. This is uneducated opinion though, so take my comments with a grain of salt, and I'm really just looking for education myself.

 

[Ttype6]

It def doesn't do the same thing, but doesn't it address the same issue/s? There's more than one way to skin a cat. This is uneducated opinion though, so take my comments with a grain of salt, and I'm really just looking for education myself.

The booster plate gets rid of the cavity in the pump cover,where the bypass oil/oil that gets past the pressure regulator piston is re introduced to the pump gears. It covers up this cavity so that the bottom face of the gears are up against a flat surface with no holes in it. This makes the pump more efficient. It's the fact that the gears now ride against a flat surface,with no holes,that makes it more efficient. Drilling the hole in the wall doesn't get rid of the cavity in the pump cover. It does shorten the distance the oil has to travel from the pick up to the gears by going through the wall instead of traveling to the end of the wall,turning ,and coming back to the gears. Because the plate blocks the reintroduction of bypassed oil,the cover is modified with a die grinder to make a channel for the bypassed oil to travel to the other side of that wall to re-enter the intake oil stream.

You'll notice that the cast iron plate,that Melling sells,allows you to see the gears when you set it over the pump cavity. You see the gears because there is a big hole in the plate. Because of this,it doesn't do what the booster plate does either and shouldn't be referred to as a booster plate because it is not.

 

[earlbrown]

The Melling unit you're talking about is a 'thrust plate' or a 'repair plate'. It is common to see it incorrectly referred to as a booster plate though....

Personally I'd rather hand lap my filter adapter smooth before doubling my odds on having an oil leak (and mismatched feed ports)

 

[Mike Licht]

I always had problems with the plates (both the Kenne Belle and the Melling) leaking. Earl as far as the hole in the idler goes, I understand what your saying but I have always done it that way and never seen a problem so I will keep at it

 

[ek02]

I have used the booster plates for 30 years and never had one leak. I always hand lap the filter adapter and then use some old fashioned gasket shellac on the gaskets. I always helicoil the threads so I can tighten the longer allen head bolts I use to the correct torque. I had trouble with pulled threads at first using the stock length bolts. Everyone has their own way of building the pump, and they all work as long as the gear clearance is right. I like the adjustable pressure regulators also to dial in the high RPM pressure.

 

[Nick Micale]

Contrary to popular belief, the critical clearance in a Buick oil pump is not between the gears and the flat plate mounting surface, but it is the clearance between the walls of the pocket and the gears. This is where the oil pressure is developed.

The factory spec for plate clearance is .002"-.007", and even on the loose side, we always have good oil pressure.

A little know fact in the turbo world is the Buick V-8's used a very similar oil pump, in fact the Buick 350 V-8 pump is identical.

In the early '80's when many Buick 455 parts had been discontinued, Mike at TA redesigned and built a new timing cover for the 455 and incorporated many improvements after working with some of the original Buick engineers, and ended up with a superior product.

One of the MAJOR difference between the new TA V-6 timing cover and an original factory cover is the tolerances in the pocket, and of course passages were also changed and improved for better flow as well as increased pressure.

Our experience is that any booster plate in not needed if all else is proper and in good shape. Since the extra gasket is a potential leak, and have replaced many on GN's, I personally do not use them.

When we build a $10-15K engine for a customer, they almost always opt to spend a few more dollars on the "heart" of the beast with a new cover!

 

[TexasT]

Man, I want to thank each and every one for their input. WOW, a lot of real good info in this thread.

Keep it coming, I have a 291 4.1 block in the wings for when I get my trans sorted out.

Great stuff. Thanks again to all!

 

[Howling Mad]

I've always wondered, why not just go for a dry sump?

 

[vacuum 6]

Mike/ Nick,

What WOT 5000-6000 oil psi range do you like to see?

Also cold start psi?


Walter

 

[Ken Adams]

Man, I want to thank each and every one for their input. WOW, a lot of real good info in this thread.

Keep it coming, I have a 291 4.1 block in the wings for when I get my trans sorted out.

Great stuff. Thanks again to all!

x2

 

[turbo nasty]

This thread veered hard off course

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Nick Micale]

Mike/ Nick,

What WOT 5000-6000 oil psi range do you like to see?

Also cold start psi? Walter

One of my street cars with a 4.1 that I just started up since it has been sitting for a week or so, and after 15 minutes oil pressure was 45 psi with 20-50 Valvoline, and I should mention the temp this AM is already 100 deg.

Start-up is ~75 psi, and almost that at WOT, cruise about 50-55 psi.

Also, I run a K&P mesh filter which has given me an increase in oil pressure on my cars, and all others I have installed as well.

 

[charlief1]

While the questions are good, but I think we need to get back to Mikes original subject. After it's put together would be the better time for questions. It's his thread after all, so let's stop hijacking it.

 

[Mike T]

Well I might throw in a good crank, I am trying to keep the cost under control here right now it just needs to run. Hey at least it is not a LS motor LOL

Mike, Is the build somewhat budget driven as an example of what can be done without spending a ton of money?