? about oil pump "PEASE HELP"

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Hi, to all


I just finished putting the engine in my car and got everything buttoned up and finally reached the point where I could try and start the car. This was an engine swap from one Tr to another and I had nothing internally taken apart on the motor just pull it out of one and drop it in another. Should also mention I did this cause the motor I put in was just rebuilt early this year by Hye Tech in CA.

Due to my lack of experience I did not realize till now that a oil pump could loose it's prime from setting even if not taken part... Sooo I start the car and it sounds like a gremlin is inside the motor with a hammer :frown: I shut the car off looked over everything thought about what it could be. Called a friend of mine with GN who was coming over anyways and we realized there was no oil pressure.

So... now that I know I had no prime I pulled the buttom of the oil pump off to pack it with vasiline to get a prime. When I pulled the cover off one of the gears fell out which I realize just rides on a stub and the other is attached to a shaft that goes up in the oil pump and it fell part way out not all the way.

Sorry to be long winded cause I'm just getting to the questions I have attached a couple of pics to help out!!

1. Should there be scratches on the bottom cover from the gears turning inside the oil pump????? As you can see in the pics they are there.

2. Should the gear that attches to the shaft have fallen part way out or should it have stayed put??????

3. Is it ok to pack with vasiline and put back together to see if it will prime???

Thanks!!!!!

 

[notacarlo]

1. The scratches and wear of the cover surface will eventually drop oil pressure. There are shims made to "re-surface" the face of the cover and increase the seal,

2. not sure, mine did not just fall out, but could be removed easily.

3. Not sure on this either, but I think I have heard that sometimes the vaseline will not leave the pump, clogging the ability for it to move the correct amount of oil.

 

[mikestertwo]

The scratches are pretty much normal. It is possible for the gear attached to the shaft to drop when the cover is removed. Just push it back up. Pack it with some vaseline, put it together, pull the cam sensor and prime the pump with a small block chevy oil pump priming tool.

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

1. The scratches and wear of the cover surface will eventually drop oil pressure. There are shims made to "re-surface" the face of the cover and increase the seal,

2. not sure, mine did not just fall out, but could be removed easily.

3. Not sure on this either, but I think I have heard that sometimes the vaseline will not leave the pump, clogging the ability for it to move the correct amount of oil.

Thanks for the quick response!!! Do you know where I could get the shims to resurface??? At any auto parts store????

Thanks!!

 

[87GN_70GS]

1. That's normal, should be nothing to worry about. They make a "booster" plate that corrects for this if it bothers you. Melling P-20I.

2. It can fall out. Turn it as you put it back in to engage notch with the cam sensor.

3. Vaseline is fine.

 

[notacarlo]

Negative.....from a vendor. It is a specialized product. I will do a search.

Like Mike said it's really not a problem. Unless it is gouged deeply I wouldn't worry too much. Just make sure your oil pressure is up to spec.

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Guys would it be possible to pack with vasiline only??? Would be nice if I could just pack with vasiline and be done.

 

[joe_schindler]

1. Should there be scratches on the bottom cover from the gears turning inside the oil pump????? As you can see in the pics they are there.

There should not be scratches; but it will get scratched from use. Resurface the cover or use a booster plate. I don't know who sells them now. Check the gears to see if they are scored. While you’re at it; pull both gears and check the inside of the pump. If it’s bad; you’ll have to change the front cover.

2. Should the gear that attches to the shaft have fallen part way out or should it have stayed put??????

Yes. If it didn't want to fall out it's because of gunk in the oil or varnish build up on the shaft. Vaseline will keep it in place.

3. Is it ok to pack with vasiline and put back together to see if it will prime???
Thanks!!!!!

If the inside of the pump is Ok:

Get a sheet of glass or something (I use a granite tile) and a sheet of 120 grit wet-or-dry sand paper (wet it first, and wet it to the tile or glass so it won't slide) and get busy (or take it to a machine shop or get a new one as the scratches look bad in the picture). You don't have to get all of the scratches out. Clean it up real good (wash it so all the abrasive is gone); then use a little Vaseline at the top of the gears to stick them in the case; and set the clearance for the gears with Plasti-Gauge. Then pack the gears again with Vaseline and put the cover on with the right gasket.

 

[joe_schindler]

Guys would it be possible to pack with vasiline only??? Would be nice if I could just pack with vasiline and be done.

It would be nice; but these oil pumps are a weak link in the chain.

Don't you just love Buicks?

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

I will take the cover to work and have the tool room clean up the cover for me. A buddy of mine has the tool for priming so I'm in business there too!!

Thanks for all the help!!!

 

[notacarlo]

Be careful, removing material can effect oil pressure.

 

[Just a Six??]

Be careful, removing material can effect oil pressure.

How?

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Would I be better off to just leave the thing be and not try to clean it up??? The scratches are not as deep as the pictures may indicate!!

 

[notacarlo]

How?

If you increase the space between the rotors and the cover. There's a tolerance there.

 

[joe_schindler]

Would I be better off to just leave the thing be and not try to clean it up??? The scratches are not as deep as the pictures may indicate!!

I don’t know about better off; but it would work; probably.

You’d still have to get the right gasket on it.

You’d still have to pack with Vaseline (it doesn’t take much); or using a priming tool might not make it pick up oil.

Using a priming tool will mean that you have to pull the Cam Sensor; and re-set it when you reinstall.


How long do you want it to last?

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

I don’t know about better off; but it would work; probably.

You’d still have to get the right gasket on it.

You’d still have to pack with Vaseline (it doesn’t take much); or using a priming tool might not make it pick up oil.

Using a priming tool will mean that you have to pull the Cam Sensor; and re-set it when you reinstall.


How long do you want it to last?

As long as possible this is a freshly built motor with maybe a thousand miles on it!!

 

[joe_schindler]

As long as possible this is a freshly built motor with maybe a thousand miles on it!!

Then; it's at least worth a booster plate; FullThrottleSpeed.com has the adapters and the front covers.

There's a HV pump for sale here:

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/parts-sale/290530-rjc-heads-gaskets-hv-oil-pump-new.html

But ask if it has both the spacer for the longer gears; and the bottom plate that the gears ride on (booster plate).


You may can get them locally from your parts seller also.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[pacecarta]

If you increase the space between the rotors and the cover. There's a tolerance there.

hogwash , no way to alter the clearance by sanding the adapter on a flat surface (i like glass) . you're restablishing a flat surface to a surface that should be flat without gouge marks from debris, the gasket selection decides the final clearance.

 

[notacarlo]

Ok, so you control tolerance by shimming and gasket selection. If the gouges were deep and you sand to match, all is well? slap it back together? The rotors can have imperfections in them as well.

I have no argument for ya pacecarta, I'm learning this stuff too. :biggrin:

 

[joe_schindler]

It’s sad that you can put 250,000 miles on a SBC pump that’s made in China and the pump is still about as good as new; but you can’t get 60,000 on a Buick pump and have much left.

The Buick design was probably a good idea somewhere; but the front cover gets expensive; and the pump is a long way from the pickup. I don’t recall another domestic engine that has this poor of a design (I’m sure there is one). The pump is also going to determine the life of your engine; so you might as well start with something that is going to last a while.

The pump clearance may have been too tight and caused the gears to gouge the case. You may need to sand the gears some also; but it would be easier to start with a new oil pump kit. Full Throttle has the kit with Adapter for $40. That’s hard to beat for a stock setup. I don’t recall what I paid for my last High Volume; but I had to order 4 of them to get enough parts to make 2 kits because the boxes were torn open when they came.