build a 200-4R for 1,000 HP

[turbo nasty]

Then I guess I'm going to keep surprising you.

Heat generation is a major factor in a high performance transmission.

Or, should I say avoiding heat generation is a major concern with a high performance transmission.

Again, I ask, what are the options we have to control heat generation, absorbtion and management with the high/rev clutch in a 200-4R?

Stay with me Chris. There's an end to this journey. I just want to make sure that everyone, not just transmission techs, understand.

Seriously for future searches it makes it harder to get to the meat of the subject with all the beans and taters getting in the way.

Heat equals output shaft problems now tell us "your" theory.

 

[Alky V6]

Seriously for future searches it makes it harder to get to the meat of the subject with all the beans and taters getting in the way.

Heat equals output shaft problems now tell us "your" theory.

The avoidance of generating heat equals output shaft problems.

What I have to offer is a little more than theory. Crawling along with my explanation like this gives everyone a chance to catch up instead of being left in the wind. How a transmission works is really very basic, and some people have a way of explaining things that leave people confused, unless you're a full blown tech.

Think about that first statement above. Can anyone explain why? Remember energy does not just disappear. It must be accounted for.

 

[turbo nasty]

Shift timing?

 

[chris718]

Energy from the turbine shaft ultimately turns the wheels.It doesnt go up in smoke thru the clutch pack.As a matter of fact 1 can argue that the friction during clutch apply reduces the load placed on the output shaft.It takes a certain amount of force to drive a component and this varies based on how fast it is being told to do it .after this it drives the wheels.The heat generated on a ratio change is generated the same way it is when we rub our hands together .friction.The heat has nothing to do with the shaft breaking.it does however burn the frictions if the drum is being asked to do more than it is capable.this heat is generated in the components of the clutch pack and absorbed by grounding the heat into these components and elsewhere.

 

[Alky V6]

So Chris. Would you agree that if we take some of that work energy that would normally make its way to the output shaft and turn it into heat from friction by slipping the clutch a little more, increasing the time that it takes for the clutch to completely engage, we can reduce the tortional spike loading on the output shaft? This will load the output shaft less during the shift?

 

[TexasT]

I'm with you. Keep the tech coming.

 

[chris718]

Definately not.Heat from the slipping clutch would show up as burnt or overheated steels,or friction disks,and in extreme cases pressure plate and drum warpage and or discoloration.

 

[nisnutz]

Just what I Want out of my high dollar trans extra slippage

 

[Alky V6]

Definately not.Heat from the slipping clutch would show up as burnt or overheated steels,or friction disks,and in extreme cases pressure plate and drum warpage and or discoloration.

I wasn't thinking of making it slip that much, but OK.

So you're saying that if the slippage and resulting heat generated from friction is beyond the capacity of our high/rev clutch pack to absorb and dissipate to the fluid and surrounding components, that the clutch plate components will overheat and burn.

But you will agree that in any application of a clutch pack, there is a slight generation of friction and heat during application, no matter how slight. Right?

 

[chris718]

How could the normal or abnormal heat generated during clutch apply directly affect the energy from the engine that drives the output shaft? How could one even attempt to answer this question intelligently or logically?The energy lost in twisting force from input to output is based on the work load(Frictional losses included not clutch slip) and the time frame it must be completed in.Running a mile in 5 minutes and walking it in 20 both get you from point a to b but the amount of energy consumed over the shorter travel time is greater than walking.The shorter the spin up time the more power that is absorbed.Engine torque drives parts and power is naturally absorbed.In the case of the slipping clutch,heat is the energy created,and heat soaked components,vaporized oil ,burnt linings is what are the byproducts naturally absorbed.

 

[chris718]

I think ive spelled out all of that several times already.

 

[Alky V6]

Just what I Want out of my high dollar trans extra slippage

You're getting ahead of me. I'm just laying down some basic ground work. If you understand everything as we go along, then you will better understand where we end up.

 

[chris718]

Don if you were local we could all go on the public access channel and have a debate.We could bring on dave and have him explain why billet parts arent necessary and how im defrauding the public 250 times a year when i sell them drums.hahahaha.you gotta have a sense of humor to be in this business.

 

[chris718]

bison and jake and otto could come too .Alright ,Ill give you the respect to finish what you want to say but tomorrows friday ,remember?

 

[kenny]

 

[nisnutz]

You're getting ahead of me. I'm just laying down some basic ground work. If you understand everything as we go along, then you will better understand where we end up.

We will have to wait and see how much I understand when we are done right now I think Im on track.

 

[Alky V6]

I think ive spelled out all of that several times already.

Really? I thought DCVING6 was the one that first answered with heat. I really feel he deserves the credit there.

So, if we slip a clutch more and take some of that work energy from the output shaft and turn it into heat, then we will feel the result while we are driving as a soft shift.

If we shorten the time taken to apply a clutch, make the clutch apply quicker, we can cut down the amount of heat generated by lessening the overall slippage of the clutch. We will take that energy that we would have lost to heat and convert it to work to drive the output shaft. We will feel the result while we are driving as a harsh shift. The harsh shift that we feel is due to a higher torsional spike loading of the output shaft.

Inorder to keep our clutch with limited heat soak capacity from burning we had to shorten the shift duration to an extraordinary level. Evidenced by the extraordinary line pressures that must be used to keep the high/rev clutch pack alive. In doing this, we also increased tortional spike loading of all the components of the driveline. Right now the output shaft has been found to be the latest weak link. After that is corrected, I wonder what the next weak link will be?

So. What is limiting the heat soak capacity of our high/rev clutch pack?

 

[Alky V6]

Is everyone with me? Are there any questions so far?

 

[Alky V6]

Dang!! You're making me hungry!

Stop it! Stop it!!

 

[quickt]

I have just been waiting for the punch line