I had wiped out the #3 lobe on my flat tappet ESP (Schneider ground) cam and I ordered the exact same cam, started it on Mobile 1 and didn't know about ZDDP until i went up to Richard Clark's place and realized his involvement with the company. From then on I have only used both with great results.
(Cam) Lobe Woes (with New Motor)
- Thread starter Terbro
- Start date
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Welp...it's done. I just ordered an exceedingly fresh 212/212 roller cam kit, roller rockers and valve covers from Cotton's.
As I like to say...money has its best value when spent.
I'll ask Jack about the cam break-in and first few hundred miles driving, (I'm sure there will be instructions with the kit for the initial break-in), but with the roller cam, what should be done for the break-in?
As I like to say...money has its best value when spent.
I'll ask Jack about the cam break-in and first few hundred miles driving, (I'm sure there will be instructions with the kit for the initial break-in), but with the roller cam, what should be done for the break-in?
He's unable to comprehend that the material missing from the cam lobes was circulated through the engine.
TURBOELKY
Well-Known Member
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It's
Yeah but it's not his fault...He's unable to understand that the material missing from the cam lobes was circulated through the engine.
ITSAV6
It's my Granny's car!
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Cut open the oil filter and see what's inside. The metal filings have been circulated through the entire engine. The will eat up bearings, score journals, and ruin the oil pump pocket in the timing cover. If you don't it can and will trash the whole engine.
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This is why I use a magnetic drain plug in all my engines as well as an external bung on the outside of the pan to drain ALL the oil, and not leave the worst stuff sitting in a 3/8" pool of contaminated oil at bottom of the stock pan?
When dealing with a high performance engine build approaching $10K, spending $250 for a RJC oil pan not only provides a magnetic plug and external bung, but the added insurance and more cooling with an extra quart of oil.
I asked Jack today if I needed different pushrods, and he just said to check to see if they're the proper length. But I'll call him tomorrow and follow up, based on your comments. Thanks...
I will definitely cut open the filter and check it out. When I first got the car back and inspected the oil on the dipstick and noticed black debris, I immediately changed the oil as I mentioned (@ ~100 miles). After that first oil change, I then inspected the oil on the dipstick about 100 miles later, and it was very clean...and stayed clean.
P.S. Some of you guys keep revealing a lot about yourself, than you're trying to reveal about me - especially when you keep bringing up the blame and fault subject. I suppose it was my fault there was black debris in the oil before I ever changed it. Considering a few of today's comments, apparently people forgot my initial mention yesterday about the debris I saw before I ever changed the oil. So I get it - you guys have stamped me as "I don't like this guy, and I'm just going to hassle him on anything from now on, whether it's fair or not". That's cool. I don't take it personally....I get that some haven't ever really matured out of the Jr. High mentality. If that's you at your best, then I won't hassle you about being you. If it's not, I get that too. I've been alive long enough to look back and know when I could've done better. On the Grand Scale of life, all this is pretty minor. If you get your jollies by hassling Terbro at every opportunity, that's kind of sad, don't you think? One thing I can tell you, is I know when I've messed up. Your incessant comments, as I've said only reiterate who you are, not me.
Besides disassembling the entire engine, is there a way to clean out the debris? Where I'm confused is...if this happened before the first oil change, and I've changed the oil twice now, wouldn't the 2 oil filters have caught all the debris?
I've just entered into a parallel universe. One where ~JM~ is capable of making a constructive, non-negative comment on one of my threads. This feels weird.
Anyway, though it's been years, what you're saying is calling up memories. And so right...
TURBOELKY
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If you haven't noticed by now, a few of us try to help as much as we give hard times
It's all in good fun, just happens to be at your expense. However, let me apologize in advance for any snide and immature comments I may make in the future. I've always affiliated with older rough foul mouthed, quick to yell and talk smack real bad, and buy you a beer later (or Diet Coke now days with their diabetes)...
Old car ownership im sure you know, comes with great responsibility. Part of routine maintenance and troubleshooting should be taken very serious in order to prevent any future problems. I'm positive you know that as I'm sure you are much older than I, and probably have owned many more classic cars than I have. With that being said, I am pretty hyper sensitive about things going on with my cars, and if I was to find anything other than oil on my dip stick or in my filter, the car would not be re started.
There is no single engine build, trans build or any other build that will be absolutely perfect, and even if it is, there is still much room for failure. I built a customer a bad ass 68 Camaro a couple years ago, near $20k spent on drive train etc. Well he ran the engine completely out of oil and had catastrophic failure. Why didn't he check the oil?? I constantly told him keep and eye on the oil and change at 500 miles or less. He said "I thought since it was a new motor I shouldn't have to check the oil"....... Guess what, once something is in your possession, YOU are responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on with whatever it is! If you piss on the toilet seat is it your dads fault?? NO, he showed you how to piss!! It's your fault because you can't aim!!
I don't even know what I'm talking about after this long ass post. WTF am I thinking.
It's all in good fun, just happens to be at your expense. However, let me apologize in advance for any snide and immature comments I may make in the future. I've always affiliated with older rough foul mouthed, quick to yell and talk smack real bad, and buy you a beer later (or Diet Coke now days with their diabetes)...
Old car ownership im sure you know, comes with great responsibility. Part of routine maintenance and troubleshooting should be taken very serious in order to prevent any future problems. I'm positive you know that as I'm sure you are much older than I, and probably have owned many more classic cars than I have. With that being said, I am pretty hyper sensitive about things going on with my cars, and if I was to find anything other than oil on my dip stick or in my filter, the car would not be re started.
There is no single engine build, trans build or any other build that will be absolutely perfect, and even if it is, there is still much room for failure. I built a customer a bad ass 68 Camaro a couple years ago, near $20k spent on drive train etc. Well he ran the engine completely out of oil and had catastrophic failure. Why didn't he check the oil?? I constantly told him keep and eye on the oil and change at 500 miles or less. He said "I thought since it was a new motor I shouldn't have to check the oil"....... Guess what, once something is in your possession, YOU are responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on with whatever it is! If you piss on the toilet seat is it your dads fault?? NO, he showed you how to piss!! It's your fault because you can't aim!!
I don't even know what I'm talking about after this long ass post. WTF am I thinking.
seedling
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- Jun 17, 2012
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I'm no expert, especially in the Buick realm. However, I do know that the metal from your wiped lobes just went everywhere that your oil has been. So in every oil galley, behind the cam bearings, every crack and crevice imaginable, it's all contaminated now.
Basically everywhere where your oil has touched is now contaminated. I know that if I had just spent all of that money? Then there is no way in haydees that I would take a chance on having the metal shavings from some wiped lobes floating around inside of a fresh motor (that I just paid good money to have built).
TT/Ameasap
The White Blur
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(Hand on my head and eyes closed) ........I see a "pre-mature bearing failure" thread in your future.......... That'll be $50
If you haven't noticed by now, a few of us try to help as much as we give hard times
It's all in good fun, just happens to be at your expense. However, let me apologize in advance for any snide and immature comments I may make in the future.
YOU are responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on with whatever it is!
As I often say, I greatly appreciate those offer positive input, so thanks to those who do. And I'd be lying if I said I was never self-righteous or never put anyone down. I just like to be sure I'm quote unquote "right" when I do. That doesn't necessarily make it my actions commendable. You know...I've read uncountable stories on these forums of woes with our cars, and when folks try to add insult to injury, it's just not cool. Again, I am old enough to be doing much better than I was when I myself was in Jr. High. Back then I would've been crushed. Now, usually a few moments of thought has me understand it psychologically. But, it's all good. What I've learned is when I or others put people down without good cause, it reveals we're not really happy with ourselves. There, my psychological assessment for the day.
As far as your comment about the owner of the car being responsible regardless...no. That would be the case if I built my own motor. But when we hire professionals, especially those who have made a name for themselves, it's *very fair* to assume they will break in the motor properly, as well as give us basic instruction on how to treat the motor in the miles afterward. THAT is why we hired them. Well, that is why we should be able to hire them. If you have a different opinion of what it means when hiring a pro to build a motor, then that's cool. I know my expectations are far from unreasonable. Why? Because I've had engine builders (including the one working on my car currently) who stands behind his work, and has said "I want to do it right the first time, so I don't have to go back and do it again".
You know, in today's world, no one wants to be responsible for their own mistakes. Watch any drug advertisement on TV, and you'll hear the full list of side effects, and they usually include death. Drug manufacturers want to be able to make a drug and not be held accountable. An engine builder can do the same thing. You sound like you're right there with them. They screw up the break in, no communicate the after break-in precautions, (like those made on a drug TV ad) but blame the user for the damage. Pretty slick. I like that business. What it does, is gives the person who's doing the actual work less and less incentive to do high quality work. And when I complained about it in another post, I caught some flack from people. My motor got thrown together, and was handed off to me without checking, re-torqueing (or even initially torqueing) many bolts. My mechanic discovered more when he was disassembling it to r&r the heads.
We need to get back to a state where people are responsible for their work, and stop blaming the guy who entrusts the professionals. That will give them the incentive to take pride in their work again, double check, make sure it's right, do it again it it's not, properly inform the customer how to treat the motor (just like a doctor informs the patient after surgery), etc. Can you imagine if a patient went back into a doctor's office after their surgery wound became gangrenous, if the doctor gave them no instruction on how to treat the area, and the doctor just said "Oh, you should've known! Treating the area around the incision after surgery has been available on the Internet for years now!"
I asked Nick about the black debris in the oil right when I got the car back. I asked him if that was normal and he said it was. I figured it was normal "fresh rebuild" debris. Nick didn't say a word and I was naïve. I wouldn't have remained naïve if Nick had spoken up. Get it? Everybody who's been so good at quoting me by coloring my posts forgets...they were the same way once too, until they learned. And there's only one way to learn. Ask or read. I tried one, and figured that was sufficient. At the time, I had no reason to doubt Nick. I was mistaken. Highlight that. I couldn't help but notice a lot of key statements I made a day or two ago were not colored in red.
Anyway, who's a good vendor for the different pushrod lengths?
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