I did not know that the Prop valve contributed to the PM's demise. I knew it was a problem in cold climates where the roads were salted.
Maybe an order is in the works.
Cardone rebuilt Power Master issues
- Thread starter J-B Racing
- Start date
I did not know that the Prop valve contributed to the PM's demise. I knew it was a problem in cold climates where the roads were salted.
Maybe an order is in the works.
Why was there a re-call. Maybe I have been mis informed.
87turbolimited if the unit is over filled there are 2 vents on the cap. The one in the rear can make it look like the reservoir or motor is leaking. Not to say it isn't the seals like Pete said just check the easiest reason first of how fluid would escape.
Somewhere I have the TSB. The Cast Iron unit was prone to corrosion.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/brakes/brakespage.html
I'm not a hoarder. I've seen one bad motor and one bad accumulator. I'm not even talking about these two items when I say these are easy to work on. The only thing inside the master that I've found bad is the two O-rings for the booster.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that anyone who wants can send me their Quadrajunks also.
Powermaster is nice when it works. When it doesn't you basically get nothing & the 'crap your pants' syndrome numerous people have mentioned. That's my main issue with it. When the other systems fail, you get some warnings & still have decent manual brakes. Power master has left many of us with no warning & trying to figure out how to save ourselves &/the car. Once I had mine fail (under factory warranty) I never quite felt the same about them when deciding to head out to the cruise or a show. In the middle of my 3rd TR doing a vacuum swap , expecting the same results of the other swaps. The good thing is, if you still like the Powermaster, I'll be getting rid of 2 of the systems coming up.
I would hope! But brake fluid shouldn't need to be changed that often. Only an inferior system, reliability wise anyway, necessitates that process.
You're car is injected and mine is carbed. Stop trying to steal carbs from me.
Most brake systems should be flushed once a year. I recommend twice a year NOT because of the Powermaster but because most Turbo Regals are not driven on a regular basis anymore. Moisture will build up in the system and lead to problems.
Our cars overall are much like the Powermaster now. No longer state of the art and very temperamental.
Dennis Kirban
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
More thoughts on what is a touchy topic. Buick as it has been pointed out did have several issues back when these cars were new. The one major recall was GE's brake switch problem. If not done brake fluid could squirt out of the switch. You had three different vendors making the proportioning valve of which only one was made in brass so the others turned to rust.
The original brake bowl had a high failure rate. Buick neglected to let owners know that brake fluid should be flushed every year or so something that German car makers have preached for years. Knock on wood, having owned 5 different "test cars" personally of my own I only experienced one brake problem and that was the switch shorting out blowing the fuse.
A segment of owners myself included will always want to retain the stock powermaster system which keeps the car original which makes it more desireable as each year passes. I have had brake issues on some of the 300 plus total Regals I have bought to resell mostly related to the brake bowl. Mostly low mileage ones that had original brake fluid in them.
Technology has come a long way since our cars were built. Every popular muscle car you can name I am sure has a few quirks associated with it.
Another improvement we recommend is replacing the front rubber brake hoses with the stainless ones. From a business standpoint we offer both versions vacuum and powermasters.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Thankful in part that Cardone did have the brake bowl reproduced and continues to rebuild the powermaster brake units for us.
The original brake bowl had a high failure rate. Buick neglected to let owners know that brake fluid should be flushed every year or so something that German car makers have preached for years. Knock on wood, having owned 5 different "test cars" personally of my own I only experienced one brake problem and that was the switch shorting out blowing the fuse.
A segment of owners myself included will always want to retain the stock powermaster system which keeps the car original which makes it more desireable as each year passes. I have had brake issues on some of the 300 plus total Regals I have bought to resell mostly related to the brake bowl. Mostly low mileage ones that had original brake fluid in them.
Technology has come a long way since our cars were built. Every popular muscle car you can name I am sure has a few quirks associated with it.
Another improvement we recommend is replacing the front rubber brake hoses with the stainless ones. From a business standpoint we offer both versions vacuum and powermasters.
denniskirban@yahoo.com
denniskirban@yahoo.com
Thankful in part that Cardone did have the brake bowl reproduced and continues to rebuild the powermaster brake units for us.
I drive mine 10k+ miles/year. I'm glad there are those out there keeping these cars original, but in doing so, you are keeping them temperamental. And that's all I'm saying. You are correct in every aspect as long as the car is being preserved and not used like I do mine. I would drive my car across the country and back in its current state. I'll drive to to BG this October, rip some 11 sec passes, and drive it home; over 600 miles each way. Would you do that with a powermaster on the car?
You're car is injected and mine is carbed. Stop trying to steal carbs from me.
If I come across one I'll make sure to let you know.
It truly never crosses my mind. I never think about it. I drive anywhere I want to. My car has 180,00 miles on it.
Ive got about 15 quadra junks for you
The powermaster fluid which provides the power brakes is seperate from the master cylinder fluid which is used to stop the car. Its easily changed. Just depressurize the powermaster and use a 60ml syringe with a small piece of hose attached to the end to suck the old fluid out of the large open area in the reservior. The 2 smaller area are the front and rear breaks. You will notice they are separate. Once you get it all out you re-fill with fresh fluid and cycle the powermaster a few times and repeat the process. this way you will get about 95% of the old fluid out and you will have decent accumulator life. Ive seen them last 10 years and would probably still be at 70% or greater. The last switch failure i had was in 1996 and i cant remember if it was a replacement or not. As mentioned earlier the only areas ive seen fail in the actual part of the master cylinder are the o-rings that separate the circuits. Ive seen the check valve stick on many. If the switch is old and of unknown origin then replacing it with a new switch is advised. I have not had a new switch fail on me yet. If the switch is bad or was bad and the motor was run above the off pressure it will fail rather quickly and the evidence is usually repeated blown fuses on the powermaster circuit. Rotted brake lines are much more likely on these cars in the northeast unless they are garage kept cars and not driven in the winter.
I don't really have a need for them but I wouldn't mind having them.
Lil Truck
I spend to much time here....
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2002
I added to this post yesterday,
http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/power-master-troubles-reman-unit.379031/
http://turbobuick.com/forums/threads/power-master-troubles-reman-unit.379031/
I have the same problem, motor runs continous after test drive Temp at PM motor 130 F. I replaced the motor with the one I removed and everything is perfect now. Cycle time 4-5sec at any Temp. 10 pump cycle 14 seconds. The pump that came with the rebuild had 8sec cycle at 80F and 25 sec at 10 pump down, when the temp goes up the pump time got longer until it ran continous and the tank level stayed high.
Took the car to the 1/8 mile drags and 150 mile drive with my old pump last night everything worked perfect. The PROBLEM I talked with Cardone and the WILL NOT take the pump back and check it only the entire unit. I gave the tech the test proceedures and temps to add to there testing of the rebuilt units but I dont have any confidence that they really care.
I have decided to keep my unit and see if I can learn to rebuild the pumps myself.
P.S. If anyone knows of a rebuld procedure for the pump please contact me, I am also looking for a new seal kit for the cylinder I removed it had a slow bypass problem.
Thanks, hope this info helps others,
Steve
Took the car to the 1/8 mile drags and 150 mile drive with my old pump last night everything worked perfect. The PROBLEM I talked with Cardone and the WILL NOT take the pump back and check it only the entire unit. I gave the tech the test proceedures and temps to add to there testing of the rebuilt units but I dont have any confidence that they really care.
I have decided to keep my unit and see if I can learn to rebuild the pumps myself.
P.S. If anyone knows of a rebuld procedure for the pump please contact me, I am also looking for a new seal kit for the cylinder I removed it had a slow bypass problem.
Thanks, hope this info helps others,
Steve
J-B Racing
Forced Induction
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2003
FWIW. I rebuilt my own PM I would say about 12 years ago when the kits were available. And since then it has failed me once due to the ACC Bowl. ONLY to this year I have gone to a Manual due to the Big Stage II Headers that did not clear the PM I had to remove it. Otherwise I would still run it. I found this method with the Cardone issue. Before installing the PM on the car, I would fill the Res. and let it drain completely to get that Solvent out. As of now it seems to be working fine.
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
After reading this months old thread, I had a good laugh of how it illustrates that the Powermaster is is BIGGEST POS that GM ever put on a performance car, especially as a "test bed" item.
If they had installed this piece of crap PM on millions of vehicles like they did/do with vac boosters, they could not have kept up with all the class action law suits.
Oh yes, now it is said you should change brake fluid every year, but that was not mentioned in 1986?
How many T-R's have rear ended another vehicle when the POS offered no assist in traffic? One is enough, but I know of many, and one in my family.
This debate will go on forever, but why owners let their car be exposed to sudden and unexpected failure, is beyond me? A vacuum conversion is easily reversed if it ever was wanted to be returned to "stock".
Thanks for the entertainment, and I am still waiting for at least one good reason to retain the most unreliable POS GM ever put on a vehicle with a critical job like stopping the car!
If they had installed this piece of crap PM on millions of vehicles like they did/do with vac boosters, they could not have kept up with all the class action law suits.
Oh yes, now it is said you should change brake fluid every year, but that was not mentioned in 1986?
How many T-R's have rear ended another vehicle when the POS offered no assist in traffic? One is enough, but I know of many, and one in my family.
This debate will go on forever, but why owners let their car be exposed to sudden and unexpected failure, is beyond me? A vacuum conversion is easily reversed if it ever was wanted to be returned to "stock".
Thanks for the entertainment, and I am still waiting for at least one good reason to retain the most unreliable POS GM ever put on a vehicle with a critical job like stopping the car!
