dbamford's TSM Car Crash @ Milan dragway lastnite!

[Grumpy]

In my mind I am not sure you can blame anyone other than lady luck on this one, but you can make your own calls on that.
Mike

X2 !!! hit the nail on the head!! **** happens !!

 

[Mike Licht]

Jason your right, especially with Cometic gaskets. But there is no signs of detonation or lean conditions, things are OK on the log. I think it was just a "racing thing"
Mike

 

[V6 Beast]

I spoke to Dave and he leaked the motor down last night. On a stone cold motor it is 8% across the board, so no blow head gasket or breakage. Plugs say the tune up is ok. If he pours water in, it comes out the back of the block where a freeze plug used to be. You can see in the video where the water comes out and the car gets loose. In my mind I am not sure you can blame anyone other than lady luck on this one, but you can make your own calls on that. I only know he told me the motor runs fine and the car is not bad so he will be back out soon. Like Billy said "don't kill the messenger" but my info came right from Dave, not an unknown party. And V6 your right, it was on a mission
Mike

Considering Dave's track record, I am surprised he even admits he was in a wreck.

 

[Sweet6]

I spoke to Dave and he leaked the motor down last night. On a stone cold motor it is 8% across the board, so no blow head gasket or breakage. Plugs say the tune up is ok. If he pours water in, it comes out the back of the block where a freeze plug used to be. You can see in the video where the water comes out and the car gets loose. In my mind I am not sure you can blame anyone other than lady luck on this one, but you can make your own calls on that. I only know he told me the motor runs fine and the car is not bad so he will be back out soon. Like Billy said "don't kill the messenger" but my info came right from Dave, not an unknown party. And V6 your right, it was on a mission
Mike

Good to hear the car is "not that bad" I hope he can get it fixed and get back out there.

 

[V6RACER]

Jason your right, especially with Cometic gaskets. But there is no signs of detonation or lean conditions, things are OK on the log. I think it was just a "racing thing"
Mike

If that was the first pass on the new motor and the new "top secret" turbo I'm betting that the boost was way higher than they expected...thus lifting a head, cracking a cylinder wall, or cracking a head.

We'll never know though, those TSM guys are so secretive lol

 

[lazaris]

Or maybe that 109 block is flexing a bit at that power level..

 

[V6RACER]

Nah those 109s can handle more..

 

[RICHIE HIGH PSI]

.

 

[turbot990]

wow a that sucks good lookin car

 

[twin 93 svt]

It did not look that bad, I'm sure car will be at the track again, but will cost some down time, Good luck Dave.

 

[Eticket]

Didn't see a picture of the front, but it didn't look bad at all to me - I guess we see more outlaw racers in TX kiss walls? Not the first time I've seen the front and back of a GN that has kissed the wall.

Interesting that I remember my stage II motor having bolts and washers to retain each freeze plug. Might not be a bad thing for you TSM guys going fast.

 

[Sam Colalillo]

FYI, You can lift a head and have good seal on a leak down with the right head gasket. Ask me how I know.

No matter what, I'd let Dan look it over.

We must all be crazy trying to get over 3 horses per cubic out of these 109’s.

I remember the first time I lifted the head on our TSM combo in our hunt to 3 horse power per cubic inch. We were doing some testing and Patrick Hall was doing the tuning. He said I don’t think we should throw any more timing at it. I said only one way to find out if it likes it or not.

Toni came back from that low boost pass and the mark on water overflow tank was lower. I have a black line on the tank to mark the water level. I pay close attention to this mark. It was at least 1” lower after that pass. The water went somewhere. I quickly did a coolant pressure test on the engine. It held 18 PSI with the needle on the gauge, never dropping as the car rode in the trailer home. I was confused. Where the hell did that water go?

That coolant pressure tester is something I cherish. Every time I install a new engine, I run a coolant pressure test. Just to make sure I don’t have water leaking out of a water pump mounting bolt, coolant hose, ETC. This is the last thing I do before firing up a new combo.

I do not not run a knock sensor on our car. Some one is going to have to teach me how to tell if detenation happened by reading a plug. All my plugs looked fine to me after that run. I still have them.

 

[BlownV6]

I dont run water anymore , and Im sure not an expert on 109 motors , but when I ran water in my stage 2 motors I started putting air bleeders at the back of the intake. when filling the engine with water , and every week when I got to the track I would overfill the radiator and open up the bleeders until I got the desired water level. It always amazed me how much air gets trapped in the heads somewhere and will burp out of those bleeders. It could have been an air pocket that worked its way out of your engine ,thus dropping the water level. Thats my though!! And Im stickin to it!! Mike

 

[BlownV6]

Sam, I dont run water anymore , and Im sure not an expert on 109 motors , but when I ran water in my stage 2 motors I started putting air bleeders at the back of the intake. when filling the engine with water , and every week when I got to the track I would overfill the radiator and open up the bleeders until I got the desired water level. It always amazed me how much air gets trapped in the heads somewhere and will burp out of those bleeders. It could have been an air pocket that worked its way out of your engine ,thus dropping the water level. Thats my though!! And Im stickin to it!! Mike

 

[ttypewhite]

I must have watched that video 50 times now. That was going to be one hell of a run if all stayed together. This is just my opinion, but I think by hitting the brakes, it forced the car in a different direction then if he would have just got off the throttle and steered through it. I would have to agree with Jason on the head lifting and pressurizing the coolant passage. Frost plugs don't just drop out, they are blown out. To my knowledge the coolant system has 14-16 psi pressure max in it, so in order to pop a frost plug, cylinder pressure has to get into the coolant passage and force it out.
As a fan of TSM, i know how competitive that field is with the top guys striving for the number one position, and you know they are going to push it to achieve their goal. I am glad he was not hurt and lives to fight another day. I hate to see any Buick member in a accident regardless of who it is.

 

[V6RACER]

We must all be crazy trying to get over 3 horses per cubic out of these 109’s.

More like >3.5 HP per CI..

There are some ways to make it last longer if you do lift a head during a run but that is a conversation for another day..

In the end you still have to pressurize the coolant to a point where the plug pushes out.. They don't just come out.

 

[turbobuick]

If the hole the plug is in becomes out of round the plug will pop out and those 109 blocks definitely will distort enough at that power level to do that. I popped two freeze plugs out of a set of early champion heads like this, one at the 1000' mark at over 140mph Never pressurized the coolant system and tore the motor down to verify. Heads were just weak and flexed enough to push the plugs out. This was on a set of very early heads that eventually cracked along the outside but no where in the chambers or where the cooling system would've been pressurized.

 

[TurboDiverArt]

More like >3.5 HP per CI..

There are some ways to make it last longer if you do lift a head during a run but that is a conversation for another day..

In the end you still have to pressurize the coolant to a point where the plug pushes out.. They don't just come out.

My buddy and I once popped a freeze-out plug while we were idling in a Krauser's parking lot years ago. No forced induction and not overheating; we had just been cruising around and decided to pull in to get a drink. We hadn’t even turned the car off when we heard water gushing from under the car while we were getting out. Coolant temp was fine; the damn thing just worked it’s way out. We were not sure of the exact cause. This was on his 1970 Monte Carlo with a 350 street motor, nothing fancy. We had never raced the car and had just been cruising around that night, not doing anything to generate any amount of pressure greater than the stock coolant cap would allow. What Chris says is definitely true, if you flex the hole it'll work it’s way out.

Art.

 

[Buicksx2]

My buddy and I once popped a freeze-out plug while we were idling in a Krauser's parking lot years ago. No forced induction and not overheating; we had just been cruising around and decided to pull in to get a drink. We hadn’t even turned the car off when we heard water gushing from under the car while we were getting out. Coolant temp was fine; the damn thing just worked it’s way out. We were not sure of the exact cause. This was on his 1970 Monte Carlo with a 350 street motor, nothing fancy. We had never raced the car and had just been cruising around that night, not doing anything to generate any amount of pressure greater than the stock coolant cap would allow. What Chris says is definitely true, if you flex the hole it'll work it’s way out.

Art.

>>> What did ya get to drink in Krauser's?

 

[lazaris]

Or maybe that 109 block is flexing a bit at that power level..

Yep.