Engine build/help

[NOKA72]

Whats up guys...need some help as i am rattling my brains...i have had some good help so far froma good friend here but i am still a touch undecided and dont want to say i should have went stroker...so am i correct in saying that with the stroker you need a lot of other supporting mods..of course a beefier fuel system...xfi...turbo...etc etc to really reap the benefits...or will my stock stroke forged bottom end really sufice...being capable of tens if pushed and run in the 11s all day long and daily driven...just dont want to feel sorry afterwards....i want to order my parts and everytime i pickup the phone i say wait let me go read some more..lol...hers what im doing tell me what you think..
30 over 109 with diamonds
k1 rods
2 caps/studs
210/215 full throttle roller
1.6 rollers
p/p heads and intake
60# ers/tt chip
3 1/2 dp///3 inch single shot
6152e
im thinking se frt mount from mark
single pump fuel system i have already...so do i go stroker...if so what needs to be changed here...thanks guys

 

[gs462]

Stroker will get you to your goal easier if you have the extra 2K for the kit, Either way you'll get into the 10's. If I were doing it Id go stroker. Extar cubes never hurt. The only thing you might need to change is the fuel pump you may need a double pumper or the like. One pump with alky will get you in the 10s but id rather have more than not enough.

 

[NOKA72]

Ok so..basically i can keep my setup...i agree i would rather have more than marginal in the fuel system...but im guessing if i keep it mild and tuned correctly i can gradually grow into pushing it further later..and the added cubes will only benefit than work against me at this time...so i shouldnt have to worry about running a big turbo i can use what i have..and my 3200 stall 9.5 inch convertor...and still have a stout street car..that is still drivable and reliable and has good manners....not sure if i need a cam change here or not...hope im making sense...im trying to explain myself best i can..lol....thnx vinny

 

[bad V6]

I run a single Walbro with Razor's dual nozzle kit, duty cycle is at 72%. My setup is similar to what you are thinking of building. The car has ran a best of10.73 @ 124.89 MPH with 22-23# of boost on the GT6152E turbo.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

On 116 octane race gas, a single 340, 48# injectors went 126 mph, on 60# injectors I went 10.9 @ 127. Stock stroke, crank, rods, all billet caps, bowl ported iron heads with stock size valves, stock intake and a 210/210 roller cam and a JayC "R" chip.

 

[NOKA72]

Badv6..im guessing you run this car on the street...use pump gas...how are its manners...

 

[87WE4BOOSTED]

I run a single Walbro with Razor's dual nozzle kit, duty cycle is at 72%. My setup is similar to what you are thinking of building. The car has ran a best of10.73 @ 124.89 MPH with 22-23# of boost on the GT6152E turbo.

x2!! This combo is the shiznit!!:biggrin: I can't wait!!

I say go stroker! It's only a couple hundred more for block clearance. The forged stock stroke and stroker kits are almost the same price. $400 for more cubes was a no brainer for me. Alot will say you will not see the gain but I guess i went with the Cool Factor.

Reread your post and see you already have the stock forged stuff. I say that should more than suffice.

 

[87WE4BOOSTED]

on 60# injectors I went 10.9 @ 127. Stock stroke, crank, rods, all billet caps, bowl ported iron heads with stock size valves, stock intake and a 210/210 roller cam and a JayC "R" chip.

If you don't mind me asking, how much boost were you running on this pass?

Thanks,

 

[Boost231]

i wish i would have went stroker. just wasn't in the budget then.

 

[m233roller]

Vinny,
Iv'e been told by 2 of the top Buick guru's that with a build like yours, a good tune and race gas you can run 10;60's safely on one walbro 340. Some years back Lenny Freeman ran 10;40 on a single walbro 340 !!! Don't think I'd want to try it but he did do it.

 

[Mike Licht]

A stroker just make eveything easier not harder. Minimal difference ic machineing and assembly. Supporting mods are no different just may need more if you go over the HP limit for what you have. The extra torque and ability to swallow up a bigger cam without having to spin the motor higher are nice too
Mike

 

[wickedtt]

A stroker just make eveything easier not harder. Minimal difference ic machineing and assembly. Supporting mods are no different just may need more if you go over the HP limit for what you have. The extra torque and ability to swallow up a bigger cam without having to spin the motor higher are nice too
Mike

I guess what vinny needs to know to make a better informed decision is if all mods were equal in the car what would the HP gain be stock verus going stroker 25-35HP or ? Then compare the cost verus the HP gain, is it really necessary when wanting to go high 10's and low 11's.

 

[Mike Licht]

The key word is "necessary" some guys have gone 10's without ported heads, does that make them unnecessary? If a stock storke motor makes 575 the stroker will pick up about 50HP. But there is so much more to the story. Torque, drivabilty easier to use a bigger turbo and camshaft with less converter. All good things. The price differerence is so small and the benifit so big I am not sure why anyone looking at a steel crank would not buy one.
Mike

 

[Nick Micale]

Whats up guys...need some help as i am rattling my brains....so am i correct in saying that with the stroker you need a lot of other supporting mods..of course a beefier fuel system...xfi...turbo...etc etc to really reap the benefits......thanks guys

As for your comment above, I would say your are correct.

From my personal experience with my own engines and other I have built, comparing a stroker engine with a stock stroke build you will see little increase in performance if all else remains the same.

At the 10.0 ET level, I see only about 0.1 sec. improvement in the 1/4 mile, and barely 1 MPH increase going from stock stroke to a 3.625" stroke without ANY other change.

To see a worth while improvement you need to at least increase RPM shift points 3-500 RPM. On the street this is not a good option unless you plan on street racing.

If you are building a race engine, or really stout street one with a strong bottom end, the minimal increase in cost makes it a good idea.

One downside to remember with a stroker crank is the piston pin is located much higher, almost in the oil ring groove, therefore the piston strength is less.

 

[turbofabricator]

Just thinking out loud.......
With the increase in CID, you will NEED to increase turbo size to net the gains. If a turbo is maxed out with stock stroke, then adding stroke will do nothing 'cept spool quicker. I feel that bore increase is a big gain due to valve unshrouding, but with a longer burn rate (more fuel and air takes more time to burn) will help a stroker increase produce more torque. Or am I missing something.
Typically an engine will reach peak cylinder pressure at or near 27* ATDC. But the pressure is significantly higher with a stroker engine IF it has the supporting airflow. Higher pressure= more torque at each degree of crank throw. It would be a great dyno challenge to quantify the difference, though. Longer stroke also means more friction. I haven't had an issue with oil rings on a stroker piston. The top ring lands on some JE pistons have failed, though, and that is due to ring pack being too high in relation to the piston dish.

 

[bad V6]

Badv6..im guessing you run this car on the street...use pump gas...how are its manners...

My car is great on the street, spool up is instant. I don't race on the street, but at 55 it will blow the MT drag radials away. The engine has a lot more potential than I am getting out of it currently, so I'm looking to up the performance for next year. More turbo, more fuel, and a different converter.

 

[NOKA72]

Bad v6 that sounds real good..thats what i want to know....

..i spoke to mike at full throttle today..expressed my concerns of drivability and street manners...he suggested his 215/220 roller with a 1.5 rr....says it should have good street manners and idle quality...ever hear of anyone using this cam...vinny

 

[charlief1]

Just thinking out loud.......
With the increase in CID, you will NEED to increase turbo size to net the gains. If a turbo is maxed out with stock stroke, then adding stroke will do nothing 'cept spool quicker. I feel that bore increase is a big gain due to valve unshrouding, but with a longer burn rate (more fuel and air takes more time to burn) will help a stroker increase produce more torque. Or am I missing something.
Typically an engine will reach peak cylinder pressure at or near 27* ATDC. But the pressure is significantly higher with a stroker engine IF it has the supporting airflow. Higher pressure= more torque at each degree of crank throw. It would be a great dyno challenge to quantify the difference, though. Longer stroke also means more friction. I haven't had an issue with oil rings on a stroker piston. The top ring lands on some JE pistons have failed, though, and that is due to ring pack being too high in relation to the piston dish.

Thanks for that explanation Ken. This is exactly what I needed to know to do the 4.1 I've been sitting on.:biggrin: