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Granddaddy of no start issues? Experts please come inside...

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turbo39151

anycoloraslongasitsblack
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Messages
4,460
After spending the past few weeks reading everything I could on "no start" conditions. And attempting most everything I can think of, I figured I'd post up here and see if anyone has any ideas...

I'll start with the back ground info and then all of the things I have tried.

First, this is a very strong running 86. 95% original, Always starts on first try. I rarely drive the car and start it up every few weeks and let her idle till warm and then put her back in the garage... The other day I went to move her out and got a "no start"

Engine turns over and attempts to start so starter is good.

I checked Battery (it's good); FP gauge says 40lbs at rail; fuel pump kicks on every time; fuel tank is full. All fuses were good.

On the first few tries of the first 10 tries I did get a back fire but since then, nothing- just crank and almost start every time...

I pulled the plugs and they were fouled from all the attempts so I replaced them with the a new set of ac delco 43s' .032 tight gap; No Start.

Swapped on a new plug wire and car started- I tuned it off thinking I had found the issue...

Figured it was bad wires so swapped on "known working" ones from another tr. NO Start... While testing the wires for spark with plug not installed (ie: only 5 plugs connected and installed) the car started and chugged a little with the residual fuel in the cylinders... I buttoned it up and tried again and no start.

Swapped on another "known working" ignition module and coil pack, NO Start. (in conjunction with the "known working" wires)

Sprayed some fuel down the throttle body to see if maybe my fuel was causing the issue; No Start.

Upon a suggestion that it was a timing issue, I pulled the cam sensor (which was fine in appearance) and put a new one- I checked and rechecked to make sure everything was lined up and dialed in properly; No start. Car has new double roller t-chain since last year and maybe has 100 miles on it since then... I have ruled that out.

Disconnected the MAF; still No start.

I replaced the crank sensor as it had a slight nick in it but still no start.

I swapped a "Known working" ECM with proper chip for injectors, no start

Considered the fusible links but the ECM is kicking on the fuel injectors and fuel pump and the starter is turning the engine over so not sure if I'm missing something there...

Went through my GM service manuals... nothing.

Used the Vortex "No Start" tree... I have good voltage at the ignition module plug but nothing is registering at the cam or crank sensors... (Not sure if I'm just not doing it right or not) Think I may have a short somewhere but not even sure where to begin...

Bear in mind that this car was just recently running (strong- no hesitation, nothing) and has not been driven since the last start. Just pulled out and put back in the carpeted and climate controlled garage.

Anyone have any ideas? I have had some help here from a few friends in trying to diagnose this but I cannot seem to make any progress and feel that I have addressed all the issues one would address when faced with a similar scenario.

Any suggestions are welcome! :cool:
 
Seems you've covered everything I would have tried.....hmmm.
You don't have any rats or squirrels that have caused havoc under the hood or somewhere eh?

Your orange computer ecm wire is connected do your SES light come on?

What about that good ole trusty car alarm switch that you may have forgotten about? or car alarm all together. Other than these I don't know bud looks like you've got it covered.
 
No critters.

SES light is on.

Orange wire is connected

No Car alarm (this car has nearly no options- power nothing)

Feels like I've covered it all but I know it'll be something simple like not enough air in the left rear tire (I checked that too btw :) LOL
 
No critters.
SES light is on.
Orange wire is connected
No Car alarm (this car has nearly no options- power nothing)
Feels like I've covered it all but I know it'll be something simple like not enough air in the left rear tire (I checked that too btw :) LOL

What chip is in the car?
 
CCCI fuse is good

I'm getting spark and fuel... Not sure what else I'm missing.
 
CCCI fuse is good

I'm getting spark and fuel... Not sure what else I'm missing.

Well, you are 2/3 there. :cool: It is going to be something simple.
Are the plugs wet? Plug Cables in the correct place?
 
Plugs are wet and cables are in correct locations... I've checked and re-checked... It's gotta be something simple but I'm missing it.
For the "air" part of this equation, I have a stock air filter in stock location, stock MAF that has been unplugged to check it and still nothing.
 
I had an intermittent no start that turned out to be the cam sensor signal wire. It was open from back probing it hundreds if times but when I checked it with a meter I completed the connection and it would run. When I removed the probe it wouldn't restart. I'd still be skeptical of the crank sensor or cam sensor
 
I had an intermittent no start that turned out to be the cam sensor signal wire. It was open from back probing it hundreds if times but when I checked it with a meter I completed the connection and it would run. When I removed the probe it wouldn't restart. I'd still be skeptical of the crank sensor or cam sensor

or the plug in the side of the ignition module.

Bob
 
"I had an intermittent no start that turned out to be the cam sensor signal wire. It was open from back probing it hundreds if times but when I checked it with a meter I completed the connection and it would run. When I removed the probe it wouldn't restart. I'd still be skeptical of the crank sensor or cam sensor"

"or the plug in the side of the ignition module."

So, Are these the culprits? Bear in mind I am not an electrician. I have a cheap little multimeter and it has served me well... If you guys can give me an idea of what to check I'll do it...
 
Upon a suggestion that it was a timing issue, I pulled the cam sensor (which was fine in appearance) and put a new one- I checked and rechecked to make sure everything was lined up and dialed in properly; No start. Car has new double roller t-chain since last year and maybe has 100 miles on it since then... I have ruled that out.

Setting the cam sensor is somewhat involved. How did you do it?

If the injectors are spraying, then there is some sort of signal coming from the cam and crank sensors, as the ECM will not receive any reference signal until the ignition module is synchronized (meaning both signals) So either the signals are intermittant or mistimed (assumeing that you are getting fuel and spark)

Bob
 
Looks good. All grounds I can find have been checked out. They all look good to me.
 
Does the car have a cut off switch or alarm of some sort that you don't know about? Try disconnecting the battery and hold both cables together for a minute to reset everything!!!
 
check the balancer bolt and make sure the crankshaft key is not sheared.


Bob
 
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