Help me plan out my decision (long, but I'll try not to bore you)

["Turbo-T"]

Ok fellas, here goes.

My engine currently has a TE60 turbo, 36 lb Ford blue top injectors, a Turbo Tweak alky chip burned for 92 octane and a D5 converter, no idea if it's restalled or stock. I'm also running a Razor's alky kit. The camshaft is a Postons grind (GN110T) with a 212/206 duration @ .050.

Recently I installed a Powerlogger which revealed that at WOT my injector duty cycle is at least 90% and sometimes even as high as 105%.

I do sometimes get some knock, most of which I believe is false, but a few times were at WOT and the AFR was in the 11's and not the usual 10's. Fuel pressure is rising 1 psi per boost.

Some have pointed out in the past, that "you must have those blue tops maxed". One individual has told me "you're fine with those blue tops as long as you're running alky", which I obviously am.

I believe I've read in other people's posts on injectors, posts, something along the lines of "if you run anything over 80% duty cycle, you're asking for trouble". However I've also read in other people's posts, that blue tops are safe into the mid to high 11's. I believe GNTType.org even points out that you can run into the 11.70's on these injectors.

My car has only gone a best of 12.61@109 on a lousy 60 ft, and that's not a traction issue 60 ft either. Shawn (youlikethat) verified at my initial passes down KCIR that there's a bog off the line. You can't floor the pedal in this car on a dead stop and spin the tires until the car moves about 10 feet and a second later. Then the turbo spools up and shrieks the rear tires before scratching 2nd.

My car weighs with me in it, minus the spare tire, and a full tank of fuel, 3705 lbs.

On the 12.61 pass my launch was on 7-8 psi as at the time I didn't have a line lock for roasting the 275/50's (yeah I know I need a 275/60 tire) so the shoes were a little warm...anything more than 8 and I would have probably went thru the beams trying to brake launch.

I have heard from one former GN owner that "get a converter and 1.60 60 fts. are yours".

Therefore I'm thinking my car needs both a converter (perhaps that might help the 60 ft...?) and......possibly injectors?

Now...I understand the 60 lb injectors are pretty much a 1 time investment. And I'm sure they'd be the best for my situation. But trying to buy both a new converter AND a new set of injectors/chip.....getting a little expensive for a single income guy supporting a household.

I can't remember but I believe I read that a TE60 turbo is good for low 11's? I don't plan to replace it but I do want to optimize what I have power wise. In other words I want to milk what I have for all it's worth. So we'll just say my goal as of now is a low 11 second 1/4 mile time on 92 pump gas and alky.

So now my question....

(1) Even though certainly not the best injector out there, but most certainly less expensive than the better injectors, would a set of 42.5's from Turbo Tweak be ok to use with the turbo I have and the 1/4 mile times I am aiming for? Would/could a 42.5 injector support an 11 second 1/4 mile time?

(2) As for the converter, I've been told I need a 2800 stall. Should I go with a lock up or non lock up? I still have my BRF 200-4R. I do interstate driving. And should i go with a custom built converter? or is there an off the shelf brand that you know would work with my combo?

(3) Would having a presumably stock D5 with the TE60 and the GN110T be a leading in factor of why I have a poor 2.00 60 ft time that's been confirmed as not a spinning at the light issue?

I apologize about the long post, but I need a little clarity.

Thanks in advance.

 

[1quick6]

I am sure people will have a lot more to say than I do, but it seems like you have a really mismatched combo with a TE60, stock converter and blue tops. A better matched lockup converter and bigger injectors are definitely in your future. I also wouldn't be afraid to go right to 60lb injectors with a matching TT chip. You need the volume, so the comment about you not needing bigger injectors because of alky doesn't make sense to me. I'd go for 60 pounders with a matching chip because it will still give you great street manners with the delivery you need.

 

[87_we4]

You need a stall with that turbo. In running a 3300 non lock up with my combo haven't been to the track yet. Also ad mentioned go with the 60lb injectors buy them once and be done

 

[ghall]

60lb inj's and a PTC conv. and leave it alone---it will be the biggest bag of fun you can have.

 

[Nick Micale]

So now my question......

(2) As for the converter, I've been told I need a 2800 stall. Should I go with a lock up or non lock up? I still have my BRF 200-4R. I do interstate driving. And should i go with a custom built converter? or is there an off the shelf brand that you know would work with my combo?
...........

Who ever told you a 2800 stall would work is giving you bad information, or else he is not familiar with turbo cars?

The TE-60 turbo will not be matched until you have a 3500 stall or better.

We have literally been through HUNDREDS of converter changes over the past 25 years in these cars, and they love the looser converters, but still most owners are afraid of a converter that is too loose. This rarely happens.

I just this week installed a 3500 10" LU in a GN with a TE-60, and it is awesome, and this is only a street car!

In 1987 I installed a 10" lock up in my street T-Type which has never even had the valve covers off in its 9K miles life, but it rocks with that converter.

Without a looser converter, you will break loose your tires easier on the street, and never do well off the line at the track.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I appreciate the input.

One thing I forgot to mention was the reason why I was debating on the 42.5 injectors over the 60's was because I was planning to buy new (unless I could find a good deal on used flow matched injectors) and the little bit of savings were going to go towards a new converter.

The "you're fine with blue tops as long as you're running alky" comment came from a well respected board member who I won't mention their name.

 

[1quick6]

The "you're fine with blue tops as long as you're running alky" comment came from a well respected board member who I won't mention their name.

Well, it just didn't make sense to me. Not saying it is wrong.

 

[Squid4life]

I would go with the 60's and chip from Eric. They are only $80 more, plus the site says the 42.5's are out of stock anyhow.

I was going to suggest an RJC boost controller, but see you already have it...

Do the injectors first, then save for a good converter from one of the vendors on here. If you go converter first and skip the injectors, you may end up hurting the motor and then you will really be out some $$$.

 

[Squid4life]

I would go with the 60's and chip from Eric. They are only $80 more, plus the site says the 42.5's are out of stock anyhow.

I was going to suggest an RJC boost controller, but see you already have it...

Do the injectors first, then save for a good converter from one of the vendors on here. If you go converter first and skip the injectors, you may end up hurting the motor and then you will really be out some $$$.

 

[RIFF RAFF]

yep

60lb inj's and a PTC conv. and leave it alone---it will be the biggest bag of fun you can have.

eric sells the chip and injectors all in one . and with dustys 2800-3000 you cant go wrong .i had the same issues .runs great on the street and the strip.#60 matching chip & 2800-3000 l/u and te-60 = crazy power

 

["Turbo-T"]

Who ever told you a 2800 stall would work is giving you bad information, or else he is not familiar with turbo cars?

I got some of my info from reading....

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/240234-te-60-stall-speed.html

And here....

Turbo Comparisons

Of course it does state:

...2800 RPM stall converter....i really don't recommend anything less than a true 2800 stall.

The TE-60 turbo will not be matched until you have a 3500 stall or better.

We have literally been through HUNDREDS of converter changes over the past 25 years in these cars, and they love the looser converters, but still most owners are afraid of a converter that is too loose. This rarely happens.

My main concern (in addition to taking away from the car's street friendly manners) is not zipping past the engine's power range...I suppose I should have it dynoed to see where and when it makes power and then go from there?

...and with dustys 2800-3000 you cant go wrong

Presuming you're referring to Dusty Bradford? I see he's a supporting member here, but I didn't see a website for his PTC converters?

Performance Torque Converters - Performance Torque Converters <--is this Dusty's site?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I do work with PTC and am a dealer for the converters on that site.

Turbo converter stall ratings can be very confusing, because they have no real stall. As you build boost, you build torque, this extra torque makes the converter stall higher. When the stall goes higher, the engine rpm continues to increase which then increases boost, which increases torque so it just keeps going, and going.

A converter that begins making boost at 2800-3000 will work with a TE-60. I call that a 2800 stall because the engine sees 2800 rpm at 0-1# of boost. It may make 5-7# at 3600 rpm, and make 10-12# at 4000rpm.

 

[Nick Micale]

............A converter that begins making boost at 2800-3000 will work with a TE-60. I call that a 2800 stall because the engine sees 2800 rpm at 0-1# of boost. It may make 5-7# at 3600 rpm, and make 10-12# at 4000rpm.

The variable here is not from 2800 at 0 boost, but how long does it take to get 5-7# of boost at 3600 RPM where you need to be for a decent launch?

Other variables come into play here such as the trim on the turbo wheels and the exhaust housing.

We have a local GN running a TE-60 and it has an "alleged" 3600 stall converter, and another turbo car with a TE-45A running high 10's with a 3800 stall.

I will check and see where both cars stall with 0 boost, so I can be sure Dusty and I are on the same page. I did not do either converter, as this is what the owners stated.

The one GN I just did that has the 3500 stall I purchased as such and is a daily driver and it feels and drives like a normal GN except for the additional 200 HP!

All these cars are decent on the street and very driveable.

I am not sure what you mean by "zipping past the engine's power range"?

Now if you just go to the track just to play, and NOT compete, the tighter converter is not as big a factor.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Turbo converter stall ratings can be very confusing, because they have no real stall. As you build boost, you build torque, this extra torque makes the converter stall higher. When the stall goes higher, the engine rpm continues to increase which then increases boost, which increases torque so it just keeps going, and going.

A converter that begins making boost at 2800-3000 will work with a TE-60. I call that a 2800 stall because the engine sees 2800 rpm at 0-1# of boost. It may make 5-7# at 3600 rpm, and make 10-12# at 4000rpm.

Dusty thanks for your chiming in.

The one GN I just did that has the 3500 stall I purchased as such and is a daily driver and it feels and drives like a normal GN except for the additional 200 HP!

All these cars are decent on the street and very driveable.

So lets say you're just driving normally in traffic, with the above mentioned cars, you can't detect any slippage at all with the high stall converters behind a turbo 6 when not in boost?

I am not sure what you mean by "zipping past the engine's power range"?

:redface: I was thinking back to the time where I bought a car with a really mismatched combo...it had a 4.10 gear with a 3 speed auto and the engine was a 165 hp V8 that only made power from 1000 to 3000 rpm...would pull ok out of the hole but wouldn't go any faster than like 55 mph.

Was afraid of something similar happening if I went with too big of a stall speed...must've not been thinking clearly it was late.

Now if you just go to the track just to play, and NOT compete, the tighter converter is not as big a factor.

Planning on doing both at the track.

 

["Turbo-T"]

One other question to ask...will a better stall converter (suited for my combo) allow my trap speed to increase?

 

[RIFF RAFF]

Short answer yes

one other question to ask...will a better stall converter (suited for my combo) allow my trap speed to increase?

youll be able to leave the hole with higher boost levels depending on your brake boost skills .. Rear brake adjustment needed .. Im leaving at 12-15 pounds off the line and its a pretty wild ride . I took dustys advice and am very happy with the results . Over stalling a car is a bad thing to .i would say contact dusty . My car rides on the street like a dream and attacks the track like a monster ..

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Yes a converter can increase trap speed but it depends on what you currently have.

For example. A stock D5 may mph very well but e.t poorly if your not really standing on it at launch. A 2800 stall will lower the et but it's possible to not gain any mph. Just depends on how the car likes the increased rpm.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

on a stock long block, TE6031

Injectors- I made the mistake and wasted money on 42.5 injectors Don't do it.
Go staright to the 60lbrs and if you ever wan't to use Erik's WB chip you can.

Torque converter- I have a L/U 9.5 3000 Stall and love it.


Good luck

 

["Turbo-T"]

Injectors- I made the mistake and wasted money on 42.5 injectors Don't do it.
Go staright to the 60lbrs and if you ever wan't to use Erik's WB chip you can.

Thanks. I actually just placed an order for 60 lb injectors last night with the matching chip. Part of me knows that this is a 1 time investment for if/when i decide to go faster. The other part of me says "you don't even need those big injectors, the 42.5's would have done the same for you plus you could've saved yourself that extra $80 for that torque converter you need."

The TC is next on the list.

 

[Pronto]

Once V8Killer rebuilds his tranny, he'll be running a TE60 with a 2800 stall 9/11. He's shooting for a 10.99. Ran a 11.8 with the stocker/D5 in an approximately 3400 lb T. He's running 50lb injectors. Plans on spraying lots of alky too.
I don't see used 50s too often but they would work too. You can use the 50s with the TT6.0 chip too. I told you in the other post my choice for converter and Grumpy concured.