I might need a fuel pump. Which to get?

[Boost231]

And people wonder why we have less and less vendors.

On a side note, i always love the Comedy the board brings.

 

[Nick Micale]

It sounds as though you think it's possible to send the fuel from a cool environment to a hot environment without the fuel soaking up some of the heat. Is this what you believe?........

With all your BS about fuel heating, where are the numbers and data to back this up?

Why don't you just put up, or shut up?

Do you have years of drag strip experience in a turbo car you built, or are you just a "keyboard warrior"?

I must have missed your car's performance figures in your signature? Oh, you ashamed, or does it not exist?

It does not take a genius to see your credibility, as if you had any to start, is now in the toilet as you keep rambling.

Since we must have 44 psi fuel pressure at the regulator, please let us know, WITH DATA, the best pump to do this!

 

[Racetronix]

I don't like the way they connect the flow of the pumps together with a block. Red uses a Y tube. Red disables the pressure relief valve so it can't come open. This means the pumps will produce maximum pressure. The time that the relief valve is going to open,lowering pressure,is at the worst possible time. Up stairs.

Please take the time to read about our custom senders.
Our block and sender combo will outflow Red's contraption.
Our lines are bigger, no taper and better radius.
Our block is huge compared to the outlet of the pumps.
We adjust the bypass valves on our GSS294M pumps used in our DP systems for very-high pressure operation (same deal as Red). All our DP units are performance tested up to 80PSI.
Our wiring harness / solution is top-notch .... oh wait ... Red's DP does not come with a wiring harness/system

 

[Boost231]

^ This is getting funny. Damn i love Turbobuick

 

[QWKRTNU]

Let me think about all this info so far.... take the idea of someone with 950 posts or someone with 5000 + and a member for way longer... or should I just look at there sig and see the real numbers

 

[Boost231]

im about done with this thread. Waiting for the next thread he starts posting in....

 

[SHADOWII]

I think this was "much to do about nothing" all tho some good info was brought out it turned into a heated(pardon the pun) issue over heating the fuel(none issue)?
After reading thru all this, if anybody cares, I've run a Red's DP for the last 4 years w/ no problems.(fuel/heating)!?

 

[garyk1970]

I have been paying a lot of attention to a lot of dialogue with respect to fuel pumps as i'm considering purchasing one. I have not decided what pump to buy yet. However, i have decided what pump to NOT buy and that is a Walbro. I am sorry Ttype6, but even after your repeated barrages of rhetoric with respect to warmer gas, i would much rather have warmer gas than none at all. I have seen MANY threads about premature walbro failures and thr lack of customer service after the sale with them. I don't need a warranty. I need to know the product I'm buying is quality, and that the company manufacturing the product will stand behind their work in the event of a premature failure, or premature decline in performance. Again, I'm going off of research on here a out guys like me who bought walbros, were dissatisfied, and were shined on by the maker.

I said this before and will say it again: i don't need a warranty. If the product in the box is a POS and has a lifetime warranty, it just means i'm going to learn how to replace that part very well, since i will probably have to ho thru several of them to get a good one (i.e. Rebuilt powermaster units!!!)

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you; i'm just saying that no matter how much you tout that a single walbro is the way for anybody to go, i have decided on My own and based on my research that it's not right for me. I believe that there are many more board members who feel the same way.

By the way, i felt that your comment about nick's integrity towards selling DW pumps even though there may be a waterfall of gas flowing from the motor was way out of line and did nothing but cause me to have a lesser opinion of the many comments you make on the board. Just thought it was a low blow.

x2 ...well said....

 

[Ttype6]

So yes i have seen it. Also i have seen the hobbs switch fail to active the second pump.

As I said,there are a multitude of things that can go wrong. The safest thing to do is get rid of the car. However,talking about all the many things that can happen in life has nothing to do with this thread. This thread was started by a guy who wanted information about available fuel pumps. If all the double pumper second pumps,in the world failed to come on,it wouldn't change the fact that the installation of a DW pump might require the modification of the fuel return line.

Also not everyone w is going to monitor their fuel pressure.

This is an unwise thing to do and another unfortunate thing that happens in the world. Does it change the fact that the installation of a DW pump might necessitate the modification of the fuel return line?

Are you saying i can run a DP with out possibility of me needing to modify the return? If i recall correctly i have seen a post about this happening. i will try and find it.

If someone installs a double pumper,made with two Walbros,the fuel return line will never have to be modified. The second pump doesn't come on until the motor is using a good amount of volume produced by the first pump. If the second pump was allowed to turn on at an idle,you would,of course,overwhelm the return line. This never happens when the pump is turned on,only,when the motor needs it and,again,has nothing to do with the fact that installing a DW pump might require the modification of the fuel return line.

i have seen them drop pressure over time but never fail when i used them.

This is my point. When you're running 93 octane at 25 plus lbs of boost and the pump doesn't put out enough alcohol,you can and will have a detonation event that could be very destructive. Of course the alky pump can also fail to come one,and that would surely be disastrous with 93 octane.

We have already established that the installation of a DW pump can require the modification of the fuel return line and WILL heat the fuel more. Why are we still talking? These are the only two points that I wanted to add to the list of aspects of running aDW pump so a person looking to by one will be able to make a more informed choice. Instead of ending this conversation,you want to talk about the many possible things that can go wrong in the life of a turbo Buick owners life as though it will negate what we all agree is true about the DW pump. It doesn't,even matter if we agree. The facts don't require that anyone believe them.

 

[Ttype6]

You have a slim chance you will have a return line overwhelming with the DW..

No one is debating the odds of it happening. The OP wanted to know if it might be a problem for him. The answer is yes,so he will now make a choice based on the information he's received.

Fuel heating or heating of the fuel is a bunch of BS in our cars.

We've already established that it's a mathematical certainty that the fuel will get heated more with the DW pump.
The reason the fuel gets heated is the same reason that someone might have to replace or modify the fuel return line. You can't have one without the other,so we might as well stop talking about the heat. the return line issue still exists and some might have a problem with that. Again,this has already been agreed on. why are we still talking.

 

[Ttype6]

after your repeated barrages of rhetoric with respect to warmer gas.

Repeated corrections to refusal to acknowledge the fact that the fuel gets heated more. In a perfect world I would only have to say it once.

i have decided what pump to NOT buy and that is a Walbro. I am sorry Ttype6

The only point of this thread is to inform people of the different aspects of fuel pumps. You've been informed and are using the information to help yourself make a choice. You have nothing to apologize for. I hope you can see the importance of informing a potential buyer,of a product,that some modification might be required. Some might not want to buy it if this isthe case. The purpose of my posts are not to promote the Walbro,but to reveal a problem with the DW in this application. Any one who doesn't mind this can buy one. If they don't know about it,they can't make a choice.

By the way, i felt that your comment about nick's integrity towards selling DW pumps even though there may be a waterfall of gas flowing from the motor was way out of line and did nothing but cause me to have a lesser opinion of the many comments you make on the board. Just thought it was a low blow.

Again,after many people have testified to the fact that they couldn't control their fuel pressure,after installing a DW pump,Nick repeatedly dismissed them by saying he'd never had that issue personally. He refused to acknowledge the problem,but eventually we saw,through his testimony,that he was aware of the problem all along. Why did he do this? Because he sells the product. He was backed into a corner and got his feathers up. It's human nature. We all do it,have done it,are doing it,and will do it in the future. It was a knee jerk reaction. I think he regrets it. He corrected it. All is forgiven. I didn't attack him. I pointed out what he did. Why weren't you disappointed in what he did?

 

[Ttype6]

We adjust the bypass valves on our GSS294M pumps used in our DP systems for very-high pressure operation (same deal as Red). All our DP units are performance tested up to 80PSI.

Do you disable it's operation?

 

[Ttype6]

Let me think about all this info so far.... take the idea of someone with 950 posts or someone with 5000 + and a member for way longer... or should I just look at there sig and see the real numbers

You should only look at the facts. Please quote something I said that wasn't factual.

 

[Ttype6]

I think this was "much to do about nothing" all tho some good info was brought out it turned into a heated(pardon the pun) issue over heating the fuel(none issue)?

I don't think we can dismiss the importance of gathering all the information about anything in life so we can make better choices. That's what this thread is about. The fuel will get heated more with a DW pump. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing,but it is a certainty. If a person doesn't mind this fact,he can purchase the pump. It's,only, important that he be made aware of this thing.

I said in an earlier post that the heat issue could be taken off the table because it comes with the idle pressure issue. They're caused by the same thing. Some people might not want to purchase this pump because of the possible necessity of a return line modification. The purpose hear is to make everyone aware of this possibility. We have.We're done.

 

[Racetronix]

Do you disable it's operation?

Disable no. That is not a smart move nor required. We max them out so they open at well over 100PSI.

 

[HighMileage]

I'd still recommend the DW. As I mentioned before,I redid the return to 5/16. Now,keep in mind I'm not sure if I needed to redo it,but I did.

The absolute must-do was to make sure my Accufab FPR had a larger opening. With that,I just went thru and ran return line all the way back,leaving the stock return line in place.

I used a new sending unit since I had the tank down. The flare on the end of the return pipe?? ...bad restriction there. I cut it off and flared it for 5/16.

There is a guy who will drill and weld the proper fitting in the outlet of the FPR in this group for decent money. Quick turnaround,too. Check that DW thread I sent you a link to from the E85 section.

 

[Boost231]

No one is debating the odds of it happening. The OP wanted to know if it might be a problem for him. The answer is yes,so he will now make a choice based on the information he's seceived.

Glad to see your not debating the odds. So to the OP, if you get a DW pump there is a very slim chance your return line will get overwhelmed

We've already established that it's a mathematical certainty that the fuel will get heated more with the DW pump.
The reason the fuel gets heated is the same reason that someone might have to replace or modify the fuel return line. You can't have one without the other,so we might as well stop talking about the heat. the return line issue still exists and some might have a problem with that. Again,this has already been agreed on. why are we still talking.

Finally you stop talking about a non issue and focus on one issue that is true to some extent.

 

[Boost231]

As I said,there are a multitude of things that can go wrong. The safest thing to do is get rid of the car. However,talking about all the many things that can happen in life has nothing to do with this thread. This thread was started by a guy who wanted information about available fuel pumps. If all the double pumper second pumps,in the world failed to come on,it wouldn't change the fact that the installation of a DW pump might require the modification of the fuel return line.

Making the OP aware of possible issues with a double pumper setup is information he wanted and needs to know about. Just like you brought up about the DW possibily overwhelming the return. i brought up issues that could take place with the DP. Same deal



This is an unwise thing to do and another unfortunate thing that happens in the world. Does it change the fact that the installation of a DW pump might necessitate the modification of the fuel return line?

No it doesn't change the fact. But in your very first post to him you said get a DP when he posted he wanted to stay with a single pump. My info gives him the facts about going to a DP setup.



If someone installs a double pumper,made with two Walbros,the fuel return line will never have to be modified. The second pump doesn't come on until the motor is using a good amount of volume produced by the first pump. If the second pump was allowed tu turn on at an idle,you would,of cource,overwhelm the return line. This never happens when the pump is turned on,only,when the motor needs it and,again,has nothing to do with the fact that installing a DW pump might require the modification of the fuel return line.

Really, Its been posted on here with "data" showing the system got over wheelmed and the pressure wouldn't stay steady. I don't have time to find the logs but it was on here. So yes this does go with the fact you might have to modify the return with this setup as well if your car is not needing the extra fuel.



This is my point. When you're running 93 octane at 25 plus lbs of boost and the pump doesn't put out enough alcohol,you can and will have a detonation event that could be very destructive. Of course the alky pump can also fail to come one,and that would surely be disastrous with 93 octane.

No your point was the alky pump fails the most in the TR appilication and your wrong.

We have already established that the installation of a DW pump can require the modification of the fuel return line and WILL heat the fuel more. Why are we still talking? These are the only two points that I wanted to add to the list of aspects of running aDW pump so a person looking to by one will be able to make a more informed choice. Instead of ending this conversation,you want to talk about the many possible things that can go wrong in the life of a turbo Buick owners life as though it will negate what we all agree is true about the DW pump. It doesn't,even matter if we agree. The facts don't require that anyone believe them.

The reason where talking still is because your hard headed and bring up mute points. Fuel heating in a TR is not a concern. Hell i live in Arizona and im sure fuel fuel gets hotter then yours as it is just because of the enviorment i drive the car in. i have had zero issues as well as all my other TR friends in AZ and alot of them run DW pumps.

Yes i wanted to talk about the possiblity of other things that can go wrong with a pump setup you are telling him he should get. Facts, just like the slim chance he might have a overwhelming issue with the DW pump which we have covered over and over again.

Waiting....... Shall we continue

 

[Boost231]

Repeated corrections to refusal to acknowledgethe fact that the fuel gets heated more. In a perfect world I would only have to say it once.



The only point of this thread is to inform people of the different aspects of fuel pumps. You've been informed and are using the information to help yourself make a choice. You have nothing to apologize for. I hope you can see the importance of informing a potential buyer,of a product,that some modification might be required. Some might not want to buy it if this isthe case. The purpose of my posts are not to promote the Walbro,but to reveal a problem with the DW in this application. Any one who doesn't mind this can buy one. If they don't know about it,they can't make a choice.


Again,after many people have testified to the fact that they couldn't control their fuel pressure,after installing a DW pump,Nick repeatedly dismissed them by saying he'd never had that issue personally. He refused to acknowledge the problem,but eventually we saw,through his testimony,that he was aware of the problem all along. Why did he do this? Because he sells the product. He was backed into a corner and got his feathers up. It's human nature. We all do it,have done it,are doing it,and will do it in the future. It was a knee jerk reaction. I think he regrets it. He corrected it. All is forgiven. I didn't attack him. I pointed out what he did. Why weren't you disappointed in what he did?

^ Nick is not one to cover up anything or say anything just because he sells a product. You obviously have no idea what kind of person nick is. For him to say he has never had the issue personally, is 100% true at the time he posted it. These pumps havent been out that long and it takes time to produce enough data to find flaws with it or the application its going into. He refused to acknowledge a problem he never encountered himself? if i acknowledge ever BS post on this board i would have sold my TR years ago. Show me since i have yet to see it where in his testimony that he had known about this problem since day one. You can't. And to say he did this because he sells the product makes you a complete Jack Ass. Im not one for calling people names but too claim that, makes you one. You think nick or any vendor on this board makes a fortune on selling a DW pump your wrong. The products they sell bring little profit to them.

 

[Boost231]

I don't think we can dismiss the importance of gathering all the information about anything in life so we can make better choices. That's what this thread is about. The fuel will get heated more with a DW pump. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing,but it is a certainty. If a person doesn't mind this fact,he can purchase the pump. It's,only, important that he be made aware of this thing.

If your not going to tell us why you believe its a good or a bad thing then why bring it up at all when its never been a issue before?

I said in an earlier post that the heat issue could be taken off the table because it comes with the idle pressure issue. They're caused by the same thing. Some people might not want to purchase this pump because of the possible necessity of a return line modification. The purpose hear is to make everyone aware of this possibility. We have.We're done.

Then after talking about it you want to take it off the table? Again why bring it up..

So the only true beef you have is the slim chance of needing to modify the return. Ok cool


So with that being said like someone else asked what single pump do you recommend the OP get?