Interesting and good info. One would think the ball bearing cartridge would have neutralized the differences to give both turbos a similar spoolup. It also shows how important it is to properly match the converter. The 6176 might out ET the 6265 with the current converter setup, but change the PTC converter a little bit and the 6265 would probably smoke it.
Interesting turbo/dyno test tonight= bigger isnt always better
- Thread starter Otto J
- Start date
Welcome!
By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.
Interesting and good info. One would think the ball bearing cartridge would have neutralized the differences to give both turbos a similar spoolup. It also shows how important it is to properly match the converter. The 6176 might out ET the 6265 with the current converter setup, but change the PTC converter a little bit and the 6265 would probably smoke it.
I cant remember one from another anymore.
Ive had it on and off a few times. It showed nothing with or without it. A thick plenum spacer is better since it actually adds volume to the plenum area and slows the air down.
Interesting. I was running a power plate on a stock plenum and had 18lbs of boost on 93 pump gas with no knock. As far as i was concerned that was an improvement in equalizing the air flow.
Does the thick spacer also help in equalizing the air flow to the cylinders?
So is it safe to say that the power plate did NOT take away any power?
thank you
D
Does the thick spacer also help in equalizing the air flow to the cylinders?
So is it safe to say that the power plate did NOT take away any power?
thank you
D
The thing is this converter and the turbos tested are more closely matched than what 90% of the anyone else is using regardless of what turbo they have. Look at peoples sigs and the e.t's they have listed. The only way the 6265 would have an edge on the 6176 on this engine in this car is if it were launched above 10psi, the boost was cranked beyond the 27psi i tested at, or the converter pump was changed slightly otherwise it would not with this engine. More CR and aggressive timing with good fuel and this converter would be way more than enough. With something that went to 3600@ zero a journal 6265 would likely spool just as fast as the 6176 did here. On the street below 50mph the 6176 is brutal. For most they would be spending less overall with a slightly higher stall down low and a journal cartridge. Thats a lot of extra $ to swing for a turbo if you want a ball bearing center when you really need a good converter to run it hard anyway. Your not going to get it done with anything that is 10" and lockup unless it can take being locked up at WOT Plenty are running a 10" with it but they are about a second below the potential of the turbo. The 6265 is low 10 sec turbo on the correct engine/tune and has the potential to run high 9's at full weight if its run hard. For a mid to high 10 sec car the 62 trim is the correct option and will require less converter to get it going.
The spacer adds volume which slows the air down without forcing it to run through a plate. Racers have used spacers like this for a long long time. Using one slows the air down as the valves open and close there is less pulsing in the intake and better distribution. I dont see airflow distribution a problem on these cars especially below 5500 rpm anyway. Could use some more plenum volume above that but its still neglible. The power plate will flow more air than a 231ci engine will use until its over 6000 rpm. Ive ran low 10's with one and some have run 9's. If your not running at least that fast and have the same ci engine and are running less rpm i wouldnt even waste my time thinking about it. I may test it sometime but i will confidently say the plate does not hurt power in any way. I have not seen documented data that proves it helps equalize airflow either.
Not to get off track, but there was 6 channel EGT data that was posted here.
You made some good comments regarding the journal vs ball bearing and converter issue. I've seen a lot of people who just want to get a ball bearing turbo and leave the converter alone when you could upgrade the converter and stay with a journal bearing and have great results and probably save money. Like you say, most people don't come close to hitting a given turbo's potential.
Thats nice. That was before i was on here. Id like to see that done again with multiple runs/pulls averaged both ways. The converter thing will always be an issue. If you want to keep a lockup your choices are limited. If you want to have the optimal setup most likely it will have a NL converter that has been adjusted at least one time. Id like to see a 6262 on this engine.
At the racetrack a good Nonlockup converter will typically couple and work better over all than a lockup converter (that is running unlocked, and most people with high HP cars would destroy a lockup converter anyway if they tried to lock it).
Will my converter be ok for my turbo and 128mph? Or should I change it
I prefer non-lockups, but since you have a converter that is designed to be locked up at WOT it "should" be fine barring unforseen damage...Maybe someone that has gone fast with a multi-disk converter will jump in and share their experience.
If you are happy with the way the car spools with the current setup and you plan on locking it at WOT then I say try it, but if you are unhappy with the spool characteristics or do not plan on locking it at WOT then get a good non-lockup and I think you'll be happier in the long run.
You will definitely be locking it for optimum e.t. and mph and id lock it so that its dropping to around 5300-5400 when its fully locked in 3rd. Based on what ive seen and the current converter tech if the combo and converter is spot on you should be able to out e.t. any lockup converter out there if you have the correct non lockup. The non lockup is lighter and will allow you to take full advantage of the torque multiplication available and give you a huge advantage in 1st and 2nd gears where you would typically be unlocked even with your lockup unit and driving over the converter. If you have a proper non lockup and you are making 9 sec power you shouldnt be in 3rd gear till at least 90 mph with a 27.5" or taller tire and 3.42 gears. If your engine is nosing over earlier than this and your in 2nd gear you are giving up a lot. Ive yet a to see a lockup unit that will deliver the efficiency of a good lockup unit when the lockup unit is not locked. Lockup units will almost always out mph a non lockup but they hurt average road horsepower when locked up and the engine is brought below its optimum rpm range. It will gain it back and show a higher mph but the average g force will be lower and the e.t. will be higher because of it. There are many cars that haul ass with lockups and many old timers still run them and go really fast. Red Armstrongs car still runs a lockup to my knowledge and he was always light years ahead of everyone with his class racing combos.
Brian, I'll be at ottos in march for all the wrk to get done...it would be great and I would be willing to compensate u for ur knowledge and advice of what I should do as far as what parts/tuning/ racing techniques etc Basically whatever u tell me to buyor do I will haha. I Want 575whp and 10.40@128 or as far as we can.
GNBRETT
Pelennor Fields
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 15,860
Where do you pull this chit from? Im not knocken it im just saying..... u need to start ur own tech Hotline dumbass...
salvageV6
Daily Driver
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
- Messages
- 20,942
" Red Armstrongs car still runs a lockup to my knowledge and he was always light years ahead of everyone with his class racing combos. "
Running a stage block in a non-stage block class can do that for ya.
Running a stage block in a non-stage block class can do that for ya.
So what's your opinion then on what I asked?
84BuickGNYorkPA
Daily Driving Buick V-6 Turbo's 1979 - Present
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,840
Great information...... I'm one of those(old) guys that won't give up my lock-up converter :tongue:, it's just great to see the tach drop 500 rpm on the exspressway and know that my mpg won't kill me on a long road trip(20mpg last trip, would be better if I could stay out of it). I only get to the track a few times a yr. and already reached my goal of 11.5 , so the trade off of the extra performance isn't a factor (at this time, for myself).
My current 62 old school is puking oil, I'm going to put the turbo on from my old motor, a PTE-44. (Just as soon as I get the car back from the body shop) I thought I wanted a new billet 6265 journal bearing, but I'm thinking the 44 should be enough to keep me in the 11.5 area, we'll see what happens next time I get to the track.
Thanks again for the great information!!
Chuck
My current 62 old school is puking oil, I'm going to put the turbo on from my old motor, a PTE-44. (Just as soon as I get the car back from the body shop) I thought I wanted a new billet 6265 journal bearing, but I'm thinking the 44 should be enough to keep me in the 11.5 area, we'll see what happens next time I get to the track.
Thanks again for the great information!!
Chuck
Similar threads
