Looks like cam gear keyway issues paging kevinb

[Team Banana]

Mike, we are having a get together at my house Saturday around noon or one. We are having two deep fried turkeys, 20lb ham and lot's more. If your interested give me a call 765-541-0404.
There are a few people coming from Dayton maybe you can catch a ride. Bob you already know your more that welcome to come too.

Ronnie

 

[BobbyBuick]

Mike, we are having a get together at my house Saturday around noon or one. We are having two deep fried turkeys, 20lb ham and lot's more. If your interested give me a call 765-541-0404.
There are a few people coming from Dayton maybe you can catch a ride. Bob you already know your more that welcome to come too.

Ronnie

Thank you Ronnie,We have a previous comitment for a fund raiser.A friend of ours is a surviver cancer victim.We are attending an ovarian cancer fund raiser .( its really a party)But thanks for the invite...

 

[The Radius Kid]

Looks Guys ,I only posted this thread to help out someone in the future.Im NOT going to throw any stones here.I have been into these cars since 87 and working on them since 95
I sure miss the good ol days
Seems like every thread turns into a bash someone or something with the stroke of a key.Thats why I only get on here to help someone or buy and sell something.
Looks like the aluminum spacer may be a probem if the crush or torque goes away.This is my first roller cam as I have always ran a bunch of junk left over stock stuff in the past.Ill keep everyone posted on results and thanks for everyones input

I see your point Bob,but this should NOT happen in any way,shape or form.
Cheaping out on one part and leaving the guys to suffer the failures is not good design or business.
Remember the "econos"?
I wonder how many guys are affected by this?
BTW: How's the end cap look?
Not cupped is it?

 

[LOT]

bolt

After talking to some local folks.Im getting a steel spacer and new keys spacer and bolts from TA

Could you post a pic of the new bolt? Thanks--Lee

 

[BobbyBuick]

remember the "econos"?
I wonder how many guys are affected by this?
Btw: How's the end cap look?
Not cupped is it?

end cap?

 

[BIGPSI]

seems like the more you spend ,the easier it breaks! Lol hope you get it fixed Bob

 

[turbot990]

BOUGHT mine from weber so far so good

 

[Robert Wilson]

Been down this road several years ago. GM part number 1352537 keys are hardened.

Also, KevinB, are you still running the Danny Bee style cam retention plate? I thought the bolt for the end of the cam is different than the Weber set up?

 

[KevinB]

Been down this road several years ago. GM part number 1352537 keys are hardened.

Also, KevinB, are you still running the Danny Bee style cam retention plate? I thought the bolt for the end of the cam is different than the Weber set up?

Yes, I'm running the Danny bee plate

 

[turbot990]

Kevin Weber use,s a 2 step wash with there set up in order to get the cam button clearance correct i used my button from Kip and NO small thin washers wich is fine i guess if you shim the button pressure instead of putting those thin little washers on the bolt and torque on that dude just would mash the thing, cause that to back off wich would break the keyway then the rest IS JUST BAD well i bought my keyway from weber just a 3 weeks ago fit the cam perfect,what i did find with my old set was after setting everything up my oil pump drive gear would move a slight bit after getting those items from weber its all good.

 

[KevinB]

Kevin, my setup uses a Danny bee retention plate instead of a button. Different type of setup.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Been down this road several years ago. GM part number 1352537 keys are hardened.

Good call. My initial thought was a soft key. A good hardened key should never sheer like this.

Non the less the cam gear should be made with a bigger flange or some way to lock it to the spacer. Guys here have come up with some creative solutions.

 

[BlownV6]

Kevin Weber use,s a 2 step wash with there set up in order to get the cam button clearance correct i used my button from Kip and NO small thin washers wich is fine i guess if you shim the button pressure instead of putting those thin little washers on the bolt and torque on that dude just would mash the thing, cause that to back off wich would break the keyway then the rest IS JUST BAD well i bought my keyway from weber just a 3 weeks ago fit the cam perfect,what i did find with my old set was after setting everything up my oil pump drive gear would move a slight bit after getting those items from weber its all good.

WARNING!!!!! If you use a distributor gear that has been machined for a recessed washer to give room for a bearing style end-play button such as these pictured. If using this setup you will most likely need to cut off the end of the cam & keyway!!!! This recess may put the end of the cam out into the area machined for the washer and when you tighten up the bolt it bottoms out on the end of the camshaft before appling pressure to the gear, spacer & timing chain gear. Other option is to cut the cam and slot the washer so that the stock length keyway can be used as pictured. Mike

 

[BobbyBuick]

WARNING!!!!! If you use a distributor gear that has been machined for a recessed washer to give room for a bearing style end-play button such as these pictured. If using this setup you will most likely need to cut off the end of the cam & keyway!!!! This recess may put the end of the cam out into the area machined for the washer and when you tighten up the bolt it bottoms out on the end of the camshaft before appling pressure to the gear, spacer & timing chain gear. Other option is to cut the cam and slot the washer so that the stock length keyway can be used as pictured. Mike

Mike that is exactly what I did wrong.The bolt was torqueing against the cam and key and not putting the pressure on the gear.
I will post some picks of the mods I made when I get the cam back this week.
Im also going with a steel spacer and cutting the key back for insurance

 

[BlownV6]

Mike that is exactly what I did wrong.The bolt was torqueing against the cam and key and not putting the pressure on the gear.
I will post some picks of the mods I made when I get the cam back this week.
Im also going with a steel spacer and cutting the key back for insurance

Well rest assured you are not the first one to do this!! This is a great thread , and just goes to show how paying attention to the SMALL details is extremely important. Its been so long since I used that type of setup that I forgot about all that info. When TurboT990 mentioned that his distributor gear was loose after tightening the bolt it all came pooring back to me!! Mike

 

[BobbyBuick]

I ended up mocking this thing up at the machine shop many times .We modified the cam slot slightly just to refab a crank key so it ends up grabbing the entire surface of the cam gear rather than half.I dont really think this is all necessary if you just make damn sure it is assembled correctly.It was unreal I didnt take out a whole engine for a 2.00 keyway.Main thing is to make sure on assembly is that the cam nose and key are completely recessed behind the cam sensor gear so when you toqque it down it crushes the sleeve against the cam gear .With its done correctly the key has no real load similar to the crank gear.I am now in search for a .040 washer to get my end play within powersource specs of .004-.008
thanks to everyone.I also went with a steel spacer from TA
Hopefully going in and running by sunday nite

 

[Slow91z]

Glad you got it straightened out Bob.

 

[turbot990]

A WASER with a keyway slot wow i never have seen a washer like that I got all my measurments from weber,s camshaft snout spacer gear and washer and button after mocking everything all is good cam sensor gear mesh looks great same pattern as factory should be good to go we will find out at the dragstrip lol glad u got it Bob.

 

[BobbyBuick]

here is final assembly of nose

 

[BIGPSI]

looks good, now you just gotta get it in and running. gimme a call if you need a hand putin it back in, later Brian