Rear Downforce Wing

[charlief1]

You're more than welcome to move it. I'm not going to rush myself on this project.
Didn't I just start this thread yesterday? And this morning you're asking why you haven't seen anything made yet? In a bit of a rush, aren't you?

So what's the deal with this section? Are we supposed to make the item first, then post about it? No discussion about preliminary planning allowed?

I generally go off number of posts Donnie. I was hoping some one would show some sort of info about it but other than DD I haven't seen any thing. I'd like to see what Jay has on what they did myself. I consider it "How I fabricted it" not "How do I fabricate it", and I hope Jay and Shane would agree with me.

Sometimes you get better exposure in the general section and more info. A lot of the guys don't come into this section unless they want to know if someone has already done it. I'm actually trying to get you more exposure and more info Donnie.:smile:

 

[Alky V6]

108MPH at the 330' based on 330' E.T. checking my log at that point and MPH shown on my datalog, but tire growth is not factored in. This was on my 8.26 pass.


Why can't you throw more at it earlier in the run?? The car should be on the pipe in less than 2 seconds after the brake is let go. Can you hit it with more NOS and boost after the leave??

More nitrous IS in the works.

 

[Alky V6]

I generally go off number of posts Donnie. I was hoping some one would show some sort of info about it but other than DD I haven't seen any thing. I'd like to see what Jay has on what they did myself. I consider it "How I fabricted it" not "How do I fabricate it", and I hope Jay and Shane would agree with me.

Sometimes you get better exposure in the general section and more info. A lot of the guys don't come into this section unless they want to know if someone has already done it. I'm actually trying to get you more exposure and more info Donnie.:smile:

I like to get others involved in some of my projects. That doesn't mean that I can't or won't figure it out myself. I just like people to feel involved sometimes. The wings are very simple really.

I found some interesting info on Pro Stock style wings and rules.
Getting maximum performance out of a car's rear spoiler | National Dragster | Find Articles at BNET

Now to figure out material and thickness.

I'm thinking the swivel hinge won't be necessary. With the Pro Stock wing, the wicker bill height is changed rather than the wing angle, it appears. If the wing angle is changed, it is very little. The wing material should be able to flex enough without needing a hinge.

 

[Alky V6]

TSO car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 108 calculated. Could be on the low side (tire growth not accounted for).
MPH at the 1320' mark: 175
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 67

My 224 cid car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 89 would be a fair high avg # for lately.
MPH at the 1320' mark: 155
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 66

Hmmm. So what does this mean guys?

 

[Alky V6]

One source I found on the internet states that a car that is doing over 150 in the 1/4 or 100 in the 1/8 can benefit from a downforce wing.

 

[S2V6RACER]

TSO car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 108 calculated. Could be on the low side (tire growth not accounted for).
MPH at the 1320' mark: 175
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 67

My 224 cid car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 89 would be a fair high avg # for lately.
MPH at the 1320' mark: 155
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 66

Hmmm. So what does this mean guys?

I don't think it's fair to compare Tony and Daves 175, 176+ when we don't know what they are running in the 330' MPH wise. I'd say to complete the formula you my TSO combo is running 60 out the back from the 330' to the 1/4 so based on that you are running harder from the 330'+ than I am but lets take into consideration how much more power it takes to push a car through the wind going so much faster from before the 330' through the end of the pass and also I weigh in around 3360+ and Tony and Dave weigh in around 3450+.

What is the official weight of your car plus or minus a couple Big Mac's for lunch??

Most faster TSM cars run 32+ out the back from the 660' to the 1/4 (about what I'm doing right now), what does that mean that a TSM car is running the same as a TSO from the 660 to the 1/4 then??

 

[gnsrule]

If you have access to the Jerry Bickel book of chassie tuneing, they go into what you might wanna do to help down track traction w/ a 4 link change. Its around here somewhere, if I find it ill look it up for ya. How about softening up the compression side of the shocks too, that should help down track.
I just looked at the wing mounting on my Camaro. The leading edge is rivited and the trailing is adjustable. Over a 14" span, the bending on the leading edge would be minimal, but anytime your increasing the wickerbill height, the angle HAS to change. The Camaro is a RJ Pro Stock chassie so things are different but still the same

Hope this helps

Craig

 

[HighPSI]

TSO car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 108 calculated. Could be on the low side (tire growth not accounted for).
MPH at the 1320' mark: 175
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 67

My 224 cid car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 89 would be a fair high avg # for lately.
MPH at the 1320' mark: 155
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 66

Hmmm. So what does this mean guys?

IMO: It means you need to hit the car harder off the line. When you see a car spin off the line and pedal or leave without boost, it almost always spins farther out when the power comes in and the chasis isn't loaded. Like I posted in your other novel, your choice of turbo makes this much trickier.

 

[baadgn]

TSO car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 108 calculated. Could be on the low side (tire growth not accounted for).
MPH at the 1320' mark: 175
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 67

My 224 cid car.
MPH at the 330' mark: 89 would be a fair high avg # for lately.
MPH at the 1320' mark: 155
MPH gained between the 330' and the 1320' mark: 66

Hmmm. So what does this mean guys?

Don,

It means your converter is toooooo tight and your turbo is toooooo big, no acceleration to the 330 but once boost is finally in it pulls good. You can put a wing on but thats not your problem, fix the problem first then make it look fast with wing. 9 lbs is too low for that tire I would suggest putting a smaller tire on it and lowering the car

 

[SPOOLN]

Windows

This might sound silly but has anyone studied the Nascar/busch series cars from the early 80s. Or better yet looked at what our G body cars look like in a wind tunnel. They built a few cars that had the aero coupe back window, the pontiac 2+2 and the Monte Carlo. Has anyone driven one at high speeds and then compared the TR at high speeds? Rear window verse wing, Just a thought.

 

[Alky V6]

IMO: It means you need to hit the car harder off the line. When you see a car spin off the line and pedal or leave without boost, it almost always spins farther out when the power comes in and the chasis isn't loaded. Like I posted in your other novel, your choice of turbo makes this much trickier.

This is exactly what I eluded to in a post in this thread very early on.

My car weight is 3160 lbs with fuel and me in it. I'm sure that has some to do with why my car isn't sticking compared to a heavier class car.

Trickier, but not impossible.

 

[Alky V6]

This might sound silly but has anyone studied the Nascar/busch series cars from the early 80s. Or better yet looked at what our G body cars look like in a wind tunnel. They built a few cars that had the aero coupe back window, the pontiac 2+2 and the Monte Carlo. Has anyone driven one at high speeds and then compared the TR at high speeds? Rear window verse wing, Just a thought.

I don't think that's silly at all. That would be very interesting to see some wind tunnel smoke trails on a Regal body.

 

[Alky V6]

Don,

It means your converter is toooooo tight and your turbo is toooooo big, no acceleration to the 330 but once boost is finally in it pulls good. You can put a wing on but thats not your problem, fix the problem first then make it look fast with wing. 9 lbs is too low for that tire I would suggest putting a smaller tire on it and lowering the car

Stay tuned. Working on the launch is a priority lately.

If I can train myself to shift at 7000 instead of 7400, I should see about an 800 rpm drop. From what I understand, that is exactly what I should be shooting for. I'm starting to learn that power is dropping off pretty quick after 7000 rpm. You can see it in the datalog trace. A level MAP can't be maintained after 6900-7000 rpm.

 

[Alky V6]

Back to the wing.

Material thickness: .050"

I don't really have to stick to any rules on wing dimensions, so the style is unlimited.
As Craig brought up with his wing design, I'm thinking of bolting the front edge of the wing to the end of the trunk lid with no hinge strip. But, I am thinking of hinging the last 4 or so inches of the wing, still maintaining a changable wicker bill of about 3/8" to 1/2".

 

[Alky V6]

I'll be tuning in the new nitrous shot in the shop before I get back to the wing design.
After that, I'll mock up some spill plate designs out of cardboard and post some pics to see what you guys think.

 

[cwmccray]

Anyone that has driven a Turbo buick on NOS can relate to the term: SKATING ON ICE. I think Donnie has stumbled on something.... First, his combo is NOT NORMAL and his is not leaving on BOOOOST.... Second, his car doesn't hit FULL boost in the 330'. If Donnie ever figures out how to leave on NOS the full 1320..... hummm on small cubic inch v6... This could get interesting I believe Chris Chow's car was suspension was similiar. He did have a wing on the back of his car.

 

[cwmccray]

Anyone that has driven a Turbo buick on NOS can relate to the term: SKATING ON ICE. I think Donnie has stumbled on something.... First, his combo is NOT NORMAL and his is not leaving on BOOOOST.... Second, his car doesn't hit FULL boost in the 330'. If Donnie ever figures out how to leave on NOS the full 1320..... hummm on small cubic inch v6... This could get interesting I believe Chris Chow's car was suspension was similiar. He did have a wing on the back of his car.

On a interesting note... Donnie, have you ever thought about putting a PG tranny behind your combo? Your car hits 2nd gear pretty hard...

 

[S2V6RACER]

Anyone that has driven a Turbo buick on NOS can relate to the term: SKATING ON ICE. I think Donnie has stumbled on something.... First, his combo is NOT NORMAL and his is not leaving on BOOOOST.... Second, his car doesn't hit FULL boost in the 330'. If Donnie ever figures out how to leave on NOS the full 1320..... hummm on small cubic inch v6... This could get interesting I believe Chris Chow's car was suspension was similiar. He did have a wing on the back of his car.

On a interesting note... Donnie, have you ever thought about putting a PG tranny behind your combo? Your car hits 2nd gear pretty hard...

If his car doesn't hit full boost till after the 330' then there is more work to do before even thinking about a wing.

A glide is the worst thing he could do to the car PERIOD!!!!

 

[bison]

If his car doesn't hit full boost till after the 330' then there is more work to do before even thinking about a wing.

A glide is the worst thing he could do to the car PERIOD!!!!

I agree and him picking up only 1mph less than TSO from 330' to 1320' is a useless comparison imo. For one TSO is at the edge of breaking traction throughout the entire first 330 and probably a little more which will give it a much better mph early on and then they are dealing with a lot more wind drag at 175mph vs. 155. They are also running a turbo/hp that will have a much higher backpressure than Don's setup so in reality the TSO mph isnt a true indication of what power the engine can make if they had no restriction on turbos.

 

[cruzn57]

don't tell Chevota that!

If his car doesn't hit full boost till after the 330' then there is more work to do before even thinking about a wing.

A glide is the worst thing he could do to the car PERIOD!!!!

his 8 sec buick V6 WITH A POWERGLIDE seemd to work pretty good,
maybe we need to rethink our thoughts on that?