Shooting for 11's stock turbo, can't get the car to go faster......

[SGRIM]

Are the heads stock? Maybe a set of ported heads and an intake would put you there....

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Ive always been told not to LU the converter in 2nd unless you've got the hard parts in the trans as its a teeth rattler when it bangs into 3rd. Ive always locked mine at the top of 3rd. Just my experience.

 

[SS_Sean]

Focus on the 60' times.

Set your pinion angle to -1.5 degrees. Remove your front sway bar. Install drag shocks front rear...cheapy Lakewoods have done well. Comp Eng makes some good cheapys too. Also installl some Moroso trick springs front/rear. Loosen your front end control arm nuts and focus on getting maximum wheel travel in the front end. Remove shock stubbers up front.

By doing these things I went from 1.7's to 1.46 as my best to date. This is on the Malibu you see launching in my sig.

 

[DougsfastZ]

Focus on the 60' times.

Set your pinion angle to -1.5 degrees. Remove your front sway bar. Install drag shocks front rear...cheapy Lakewoods have done well. Comp Eng makes some good cheapys too. Also installl some Moroso trick springs front/rear. Loosen your front end control arm nuts and focus on getting maximum wheel travel in the front end. Remove shock stubbers up front.

By doing these things I went from 1.7's to 1.46 as my best to date. This is on the Malibu you see launching in my sig.

I always read -2 to -4 degrees of pinion angle. Any reason for -1.5? Front sway bar is already gone, and have QA1 single adjustables up front (set to 3). I'll get some QA1 single adjustable rears. I'll research some trick springs on all four corners. How much do I loosen the front control arm nuts? Will affect street driving? What does removing the front shock stubbers up front?

Thanks for the info.

Doug D

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Good times so far and some good recommendations in here also.

Since you want it too look stock then doing the Steve Monroe 62mm throttle body port is something that would help a tad and not look any different.

It sounds like you were locking the converter in 3rd so stick with that and forget the transbrake unless you want to collapse that stock forward drum.

Also agree on adding more psi in the tires, the top end should stabilize and maybe gain you a 1/2 a mph.

Definitely add more timing in 1st, which will probably help the launch also and make sure the alky is not coming on out of the hole, you might need to talk to Razor to tweak the kit.

While you are talking to Razor, see if he recommends going to a twin nozzle to get those temps down. Might only be an M15 and an M5 but it should get you lower than 200 degree inlet temps which means, more boost!!:biggrin:

I didn't see any Scanmaster or Powerlogger data etc, but I'm curious on your AF/R, you might be able to sneak another MPH if you're running too fat.

An aftermarket Maf like a 3.5" would help a tad as the inlet will have much less back pressure.

 

[DougsfastZ]

Good times so far and some good recommendations in here also.

Since you want it too look stock then doing the Steve Monroe 62mm throttle body port is something that would help a tad and not look any different.

It sounds like you were locking the converter in 3rd so stick with that and forget the transbrake unless you want to collapse that stock forward drum.

Also agree on adding more psi in the tires, the top end should stabilize and maybe gain you a 1/2 a mph.

Definitely add more timing in 1st, which will probably help the launch also and make sure the alky is not coming on out of the hole, you might need to talk to Razor to tweak the kit.

While you are talking to Razor, see if he recommends going to a twin nozzle to get those temps down. Might only be an M15 and an M5 but it should get you lower than 200 degree inlet temps which means, more boost!!:biggrin:

I didn't see any Scanmaster or Powerlogger data etc, but I'm curious on your AF/R, you might be able to sneak another MPH if you're running too fat.

An aftermarket Maf like a 3.5" would help a tad as the inlet will have much less back pressure.

I can't attach my powerlogger files, but basically it's around 11.0 AFR 1st and 2nd gear, and by the top of 3rd it's going down to 10.5 to 10.7 ish.

I'm currently running an M15 nozzle. I read from Julio that 120+ trap cars is when you need a dual nozzle. The inlet temps are right before the nozzle (in the up pipe). I don't know what hte temps are in the dog house.

I run a DevilsOwn controller box.

I run a TR Custom Parts 84-87 Turbo Regals, 94-6 Impala SS, 93-up F Body Cars, Olds G-Body Cars, Late Model Corvettes, S-10 Blazers big mouth cold air kit. It's 3.5" to the turbo bell.

Thanks for the info,

Doug D

 

[SS_Sean]

I always read -2 to -4 degrees of pinion angle. Any reason for -1.5? Front sway bar is already gone, and have QA1 single adjustables up front (set to 3). I'll get some QA1 single adjustable rears. I'll research some trick springs on all four corners. How much do I loosen the front control arm nuts? Will affect street driving? What does removing the front shock stubbers up front?

Thanks for the info.

Doug D

Actually my Malibu is set at -2* after reading my notes. I started at -1.5. That is for a Malibu, and the Regals may like a little more pinion angle. Loosen the nuts on the upper control arms so they are barely tight. You want the arms to move downwards with as little resistance as possible. Del-a-lum bushings would be even better, but are very expensive. You pull the rubber stoppers so that you get maximum front end travel. You want to unload that front end when you launch the car, thereby xferring the weight to the rear as quick as possible.

 

[slamming 6]

Stop Sandbagging and run it like stole it,Just kidding i have some stock appearing parts for ya.What are your shift points at keep the ATR sway bar and dont spend the money for a HRparts bar if the car is leaving straight and square.

 

[BEATAV8]

subscribing.. interesting thread with good suggestions.

 

[blackshoebox]

Lots of good suggestions!

I would air up the tires, I used to run that at 18-20 on my Buick with good results.(1.5's off the foot brake) Also, look at airing up the fronts, to 40-45 psi(less rolling resistance). What is the car shifting @ rpm wise? Are you letting the trans shift itself(leave it in drive) or shifting 2-3rd? I would lock the converter out of the gate. Lean out the a/f to atleast 11.5-1 all the way through. Lean is mean. Good air will help you also. 200 IAT is high espicially with a stock IC.

Good luck.

 

[ngnowner]

Hi,
You guys are a hoot. As a non drag racer,I am impressed with the stuff I learn,just by reading your posts. I would race for the fun of it, but you guys are serious! Bless you for that, wish my competitive spirit was stronger. Now, let me go find a ricer I can beat up on...

+1 Learning allot also, keep the info flowing:biggrin:

 

[DougsfastZ]

I thought 11.5 AFR was too lean for meth injection?

I'll look into modifing the front end to get the best weight transfer.

I let the car shift itself by putting into drive (not OD). I think it shifts around 4900.

Doug D

 

[VadersV6]

How much modifying do you want to do? The key is EFFICIENT boost. Remove as many pressure drops as you can, and that stock turbo will surprise you. That means a ported intake, sawing off the rolled lips from the up-pipe, getting a good intake tube and a big filter, do a full radius on the stock intercooler's inlet, but only deburr the outlet, Either get a good aftermarket downpipe or port the hell out of the exhaust elbow, Get an RJC boost controller or make your own, get a better torque converter if you're allowing yourself that, cause the right TC and hard, consistent shifts can easily drop half a second off your ET's. The Art Carr 16930 is an awesome TC, given its super light rotational mass and high flash speed. They're only 9.5" in diameter, and it seriously feels like a 100hp gain. Your trap speeds show you dont have the hp to run 11's without SUPER efficiency, but even then, it would be a super high 11. So if its in the cards, get a full exhaust, intake tube, saw the lips off, radius the IC inlet, deburr the outlet, get an AC 16930, with about 2800-3000 stall, and tune it all right. Do things to increase your trap speed right now. Once you see the trap speeds going up, then you know your ET potential is improving. Right now, you're making really efficient runs and cant do much more with it without increasing HP.
As for pinion angle, that all depends on wheelbase and weight distribution. Late model mustangs love 4 degrees negative and GN's tend to love 2 degrees negative. On launch the pinion kicks up and the driveshaft straightens out, if you've adjusted it right. Theres so much compliance in a loose mustang chassis, that the pinion moves alot. So to get that 0 degree angle on launch under a load, you need as much as 4 degrees negative. the GN's are a full frame car and the suspension is far more rigid, so it doesnt need as much.
Run some skinnies or even spare tires in the front with 40psi. I wouldnt worry about suspension. Your ET's and traps show you arent losing much at all through the chassis. Its really efficient. Work on that trap speed by increasing hp with those things I mentioned, and then you may have to start worrying about chassis adjustment.

 

[blackshoebox]

I thought 11.5 AFR was too lean for meth injection?

I'll look into modifing the front end to get the best weight transfer.

I let the car shift itself by putting into drive (not OD). I think it shifts around 4900.

Doug D

What difference does it make if it is 11.5 AFR on meth or str8 race gas, etc...? I would think it would have no bearing either way.

I would tune it a little leaner and as along as the EGT's are not to high the car should make more power. If you do not have a EGT gage, I would look at one, just another way to see how lean of fat the car is running.

I would move the shift point up to 5100-5200 by holding the car in second and manually upshifting to D(third).

HTH..

 

[Slow91z]

Hey I didn't read this whole thread so this may have been suggested already.

Port the heck out of your intercooler neck, not as good as a dutt neck but big gains to be had in this area.

 

[DougsfastZ]

I made two quick animations of the car launching. I really like how the tires plant now with the lower control arm brackets. I can't tell you what the shorts were on these runs.
What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Doug D

 

[turbofabricator]

Back in 1991 I ran a 11.77@112 with stock turbo, 30lb. injectors (Tomco stock replacement) AFR ported heads, Crane cam (204/208 no longer offered), Art Carr 3600 9" NL converter, 8" DOT M&H tires, stock intercooler that I ported the inlet out, but no welding, 2.5" down pipe (it exited out the in front of the front tire. Incidentally, that was ALOT of fun to start the car when people were standing next to the R, front fender:biggrin: ) Stock bottom end, stock rear end, air bag in the R rear spring, Bilstien shocks, STOCK rear control arms/bushings. My lifter pre-load was about .080-.150", too (which cost me over 80 HP) Back in those days, I use to change head gaskets like most people changed oil. The car also had skinnies up front, front bumper brace removed (except what was needed to mount the bumper.) No fiberglass, No fancy suspension parts, one external Bosch 286 fuel pump. (probably pumped less than a stock fuel pump ) It ran a 1.55 short time. I also ran a K&N 8" cone filter, and ported stock inlet bell. No alcohol and C-16 fuel. Good air and good track prep. That run pissed off a bunch of Canadian guys.:biggrin: I also backed it up with a 11.81, and a couple of 11.90's, too. You young guys (young to Turbo Regal scene) have it sooooo easy these days. The 30 lb. injectors were the "HOT" set up back then. I really wish I had developed the alcohol system back then. I built a alky system back in 1992, and removed the stock restrictive intercooler. I pumped ALOT of alcohol in the engine (actually, I injected it INTO the turbo using a pressurized (with boost) canister, so it was progressive.) and it worked GREAT!!! I had other issues with the car at the time and never made a pass at the track with the no I/C alky set-up. It had no detonation on pump gas and a Conley Mag IV race chip on the street. Conley said it was impossible when I talked to him on the phone. Also messed with Don Kieger chips, too. Anyone remember him? OK, I feel REAL old right now.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Sorry, in my post I meant to watch the AF/R during the foot braking to see if the alky is fattening up the car in the hole, not after it leaves. Razor can hook you up.

And 11.0 and especially 10.5 are a tad fat IMO and there's HP and MPH waiting to be gained. I gained 10 AWHP almost throughout the powerband on my Talon from going 11.4 to 11.8 and that's to 4 wheels and through a crappy inefficient torque converter.

I like the freeing of backpressure comment, considering a front mount will free up 5psi you need to do something to the IC and TB to help out that stock turbo. A stock turbo pushing 25psi through a 70mm TB/Plenum and FMIC is WAY different than through the stock IC and TB.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

WOW
some realy good reading and learning thanks guys.

 

[scojack_2001]

Been there & done that...

I just skimmed the whole thread. My car's times are in my sig. Ran a 11-second stock turbo pass on March 1st of this year. You WILL need to run alot of timing and alot of boost. I ran 26psi on my 11.98 pass. I did back it up with a 11.99. Both were at 111mph.

Mods to my car are:

Internally stock high mileage original 109 motor with only a Edelbrock double roller timing set
Stock turbo with big inlet bell (port matched), adj. wastegate
Stock Intercooler (ported inlet & outlet)
Stock untouched TB and port-matched plenum, running RJC PowerPlate, bypassed TB coolant lines
Big Mouth alum. intake and MAF pipe
3" THDP with testpipe and running through the Hooker catback
Original BRF trans with stock D5, with shift kit and hardened stator
Lucas 009 injectors, Accufab reg., Walbro 340 w/hotwire
Razor's PAC:biggrin:
Production TT 5.6 alchy chip, 24°/23° defaut timing
Stock rear suspension (at the time) except for KYBs all around and rear cargo coils
Ran the time on bald 275/50/15 MT DRs @20psi (i think)

From the timeslip:

R/T- who cares (it was T&T day)
60'- 1.641
330'- 4.845
1/8 - 7.587
1/8 MPH - 89.59
1000' - 9.962
1/4 - 11.980
1/4MPH - 111.51

Basically what it comes down to is tuning. And great air on a GREAT track. That and a good launch too. I cranked the timing up too on the last few runs. That was on a 87/104 octane mix too.

All in all thats about as fast as my car will go on a hail mary pass. I am planning turbo and convertor upgrades here soon.

BTW, that was with a 36mm swaybar IN PLACE and 16x8 GTA front wheels as well. Stock rear swaybar too.