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SO, what is the next big thing?

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Mike Licht

I was here first
Joined
May 23, 2001
Messages
4,642
Caution advanced tech discussion and opinions contained in this thread use caution when entering :) If we look back at the history of turbo Buick performance we seem to move in waves. At first it was keep the stock injectors and turbo, then it was keep the stock cam, then it was the small 200/200 cam and locked converter, slowly we adapt to bigger parts and more power. We have been in the mode we are in for a while now with lots of people using similar combos and being successful but like always someone has to step up and try something new or different for everyone to move forward. Power is about mass air flow, we have cylinder heads, intake and exhaust systems pretty well maxed out, the two biggest variables left are turbos, where technology changes very fast and camshafts. There is no doubt the recent changes in turbos like billet wheels and advanced turbines have made turbos better, we have small turbos going faster than yesterdays big turbos. There is more to come we are testing some new turbos that are pretty amazing in what they will do and what we can do with the camshaft to get more power. These new turbine wheels are allowing us to open the exhaust earlier to get more drive pressure and large torque increases. Camshafts is one spot where for some reason the Buick guys always go small even when everyone else keeps getting bigger. Bigger cams make power. We also need more valve spring than what we have been using. The austemper roller core can handle about 250 on the seat and 500 over the nose for spring pressure, hydraulic lifter tech has not advanced and since the 885 short travel is gone we really don't have a good replacement race lifer, (the Morel is good but not short travel) recently I have been experimenting with solid roller cams and I am going to tell you that they work well, do not need constant adjusting and do not set off the knock sensor. (We just added a drop in solid roller lifter to the web store) So the way I see it the next big thing is more aggressive cams with fast lobes, possibly solid cams, cam timing different than what we use now, much more customized to the head and turbo combo. New generation turbos will be part of the plan. I see Bison moving in a similar direction and I applaud his effort and forward thinking. What do the rest of you see as the next big thing?
 
Well this is already here but more and more are using it E85 or E98 but making more and more power with it

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
Honestly... turbo LS conversion parts. Not that half the people doing it need it. Just seems a lot of people think they need it.
 
Since these cars work on mass flow I still believe that using Series II heads and an intake to go with them would be a cheap upgrade and allow for many more options Mike. Granted headers and intake would need to be made but it would be like going from Stage I to Stage II heads for more power.;)
 
I would say cam timing. Turbos make a great equalizer in terms of head flow and porting. More aggressive cam lobes have proven to make more power as anything you can do to increase low lift flow is a benefit. The tradeoff is longevity.

I wish I knew more about cams. I've tought myself quite a lot and now I'm at the phase where I've learned I don't know shit! :D I've done some interesting reading about timing the last couple years that looks like it would move over to turbo engines quite nicely. The benefit of what I'm thinking would be the ability to run a turbo that's 'too big' with a less restrictive exhaust housing while maintaining dynamic compression.
 
I no I don't belong in this but more carbon fiber parts from turbo wheels to body parts to intakes.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
How about that 300+ci aluminum block......not that I could afford it. I mean I could buy the block but would have to make a coffee table or something out of it for a while.
 
I'll throw some out; OHC aluminum heads, different timing cover/oil pump/water pump setup. Of course a new beefy iron block. Oh and how about all the bolts on the whole engine being either metric or sae and all the same size.:confused:
 
I think there are a few ideas out there for new parts and not enough potential customers to justify the investment of making those new parts. Everybody says they want a cheap iron block, but nobody is going to spend the money unless they can sell them. How about something that gets the interest of new blood into turbo Buicks.

Maybe sponsor a v6 vs. LS class at one of the big Buick races so we can find out which one is better. This should also make the V6 guys push a little harder and pushing will definitely uncover some weak points that will need to be addressed.
 
I'll throw some out; OHC aluminum heads, different timing cover/oil pump/water pump setup.

funny you should mention that... I JUST got off the phone with the company that made the timing covers for GM about an hour ago.
 
I would say cam timing. Turbos make a great equalizer in terms of head flow and porting. More aggressive cam lobes have proven to make more power as anything you can do to increase low lift flow is a benefit. The tradeoff is longevity.

I wish I knew more about cams. I've tought myself quite a lot and now I'm at the phase where I've learned I don't know shit! :D I've done some interesting reading about timing the last couple years that looks like it would move over to turbo engines quite nicely. The benefit of what I'm thinking would be the ability to run a turbo that's 'too big' with a less restrictive exhaust housing while maintaining dynamic compression.
Earl, I think what we are finally zeroing in on is that in a maxed out scenario cam timing need to be different for iron and aluminum heads. Exhaust cam opening has to come at a different time with different turbine wheels and some of the new turbine wheels allow us to open the exhaust valve much earlier. The other thing I have recently found is that big wastegates really help which never made sense before but I am starting to understand more clearly. I will be putting a 66MM on the header of my new car even though a 44 will control the boost just fine.
 
I think the Buick community has a lot to gain from cam technology. New profiles are constantly being developed and changing our perception on what we think is radical. Ramp profiles on our small displacement engines seem to play a more important roll in maintaining torque to spool a turbo and keep overlap in check when increasing duration. We (Bison and I) have spent numerous hours analyzing different profiles on our small Buick cam cores and can see the potential with certain profiles. So my opinion on the next big thing is really a marriage of turbo and cam.
AG


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
 
I think the Buick community has a lot to gain from cam technology. New profiles are constantly being developed and changing our perception on what we think is radical. Ramp profiles on our small displacement engines seem to play a more important roll in maintaining torque to spool a turbo and keep overlap in check when increasing duration. We (Bison and I) have spent numerous hours analyzing different profiles on our small Buick cam cores and can see the potential with certain profiles. So my opinion on the next big thing is really a marriage of turbo and cam.
AG


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app
I guess that is what I was hoping someone would say, seems like we are headed in the same direction
 
I would like to see the vendors here start building "Test Cars." Show me that a billet turbo made more power than the cast unit.
I would like for the prices of the parts to go down a bit. $1100 for headers!!
I would like for the fitment issues to be addressed before you offer something to the community. $600 Headers or Intercoolers that need to be modded to fit.
I would not swap my V6 to a V8 but If I pick up a MC SS and a LS motor....Vendors for TR's won't hear from me for quite a while.

Point is, if you make these fragile cars as expensive as Mopars to go fast with any reliability...they will die off.
 
For the most part the next big thing has already been tried, you just have to know the people who spent the money and actually put parts in running cars to see the results instead of speculating and guessing. Over the years my car and many other local cars have benefited greatly from these people who did not hide their results irregardless if it was failure or success.
 
I would like to see the vendors here start building "Test Cars." Show me that a billet turbo made more power than the cast unit.
I would like for the prices of the parts to go down a bit. $1100 for headers!!
I would like for the fitment issues to be addressed before you offer something to the community. $600 Headers or Intercoolers that need to be modded to fit.
I would not swap my V6 to a V8 but If I pick up a MC SS and a LS motor....Vendors for TR's won't hear from me for quite a while.

Point is, if you make this fragile cars as expensive as Mopars to go fast with any reliability...they will die off.

Spot on.
 
Earl, I think what we are finally zeroing in on is that in a maxed out scenario cam timing need to be different for iron and aluminum heads. Exhaust cam opening has to come at a different time with different turbine wheels and some of the new turbine wheels allow us to open the exhaust valve much earlier. The other thing I have recently found is that big wastegates really help which never made sense before but I am starting to understand more clearly. I will be putting a 66MM on the header of my new car even though a 44 will control the boost just fine.

That's true. Most alum headed builds I read about are hampered from not having enough static compression to start with. For the cam to be 'right' it has to have the compression it needs to do it's job. The best cam for those engines is a compromise at best. The extreme ramp speeds are great. They can allow the air you need without holding the intake open any longer than you have to. They can also allow less overlap while still getting the job done.

I was reading some stuff that Harold (I forget his last name), the designer of the Voodoo lobes has done. Part of the Voodoo series' exhaust note came from opening the exhaust valve earlier than normal. It gave the exhaust a good pop while it was still making power on the power stroke. Even though it bleeds off power, it does it so late in the stroke that the gain from header velocity outweighs the downsides. I've been thinking that would be a great way to spool the crap out of large turbos. The benefit of having a larger exhaust housing would be great across the board, both in power and efficiency and MPHs. Since we have pressurized exhaust and no negative pulses, that sounds like something to be looked at for spool.

After typing that out, I realized we're kinda on the same page about the 'next big thing' and I realized the next big thing will basically be a band-aid for shoddy engine builds. :D lol


The attrition is also a good point. How many new and exiting items do you see built for a Shelby Cobra, a Superbird, or a 62 Ferrari GTO? None. And if anyone developed something cool, it's be money wasted in R&D. Anything developed for these cars has to be able to fit a large chunk of different builds otherwise you'd die with the parts.

There's going to be a lot of dieing off just from to attrition. A lot of these cars are getting parked in garages and growing dust or only getting out for cruise nights. Hell, I've pretty much done it. After my car was stolen I only get it out when it's nice and I don't beat on it like I used to.

Then take the cars that newbies are buying. A certain percentage are buying their dream car, turning the boost up, then getting out after blowing the cars to bits.


I was actually talking about this with another member a few weeks ago. There really haven't been any major developments in turbo buicks in many years. Adjustable chips, RJC came out with the powerplate, the translator is another good one. Other than that, everything else has just been refinements or nicer parts becoming affordable.
 
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