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Discussion in 'Stage II Tech' started by hemi8, May 3, 2014.
That is the old version, mine is long and looks more like the stock unit with the in and out lines.
You DO NOT want to use that filter in that fuel line kit. I can show you flow sheets from Deatschwerks for filters the same size as the Racetronix one that shows over 1.5-2psi of backpressure from that filter.
That means just by using their kit, your fuel pump will flow LESS than a fuel line system that used a properly-sized fuel filter.
I personally run Kinsler filters because they have less than .25psi of backpressure at over 1,000lph of fuel flow. They are E85 Compatible, come with either male or female filter ends, with -8,-10,-12 sizes, and have over 74sq in of media surface area in their SMALLEST filter!! They have 25,45,75,100 micron stainless elements as well (along with paper elements for non-e85 guy).
But back to my point-get a different filter, unless you enjoy having your fuel pump flow LESS than it should!
That's why its now where it belongs-in the trash.
Same reason the RPS fuel line kits use a Weldon fuel filter... 60+ sq inches of media surface area..
I don't know where you got that information from Tyler, but that is incorrect. I seen first hand what the testing (not I heard or someone said) through that Fram filter netted while my system was on the bench, and then we installed it there at Racetronix and saw what it netted installed on my car. That filter was tested among many others to find the best flow and fit, it wasn't just randomly picked and lets run with it. Price put that filter out of reach. The new double pumpers come with a different style filter that performs just as well, and I personally am "STILL" running that Fram filter on my car to this day. 9.20@154mph with 68% duty cycle in a heavy 3,700 pound car with driver. Sucks to hear your problem Mike, but I'm sure you will be back in the swing soon.
I am talking to small 6 micron filter that is roughly 2 1/2" X 3" from the old Racetronix unit.
The only filters I know with similar sized media surface area are System 1 filters but those are amazing pieces of technology, and still a little larger.
I know, hence my reply. I still have the old Racetronix unit on my car (that is faster then it was when I ran 154mph).... with the filter that you say is no good and have no issues what so ever. My point is, it never was a issue.
If you have ample pump, then it never will be an issue.
If you are running on the edge of 100% duty cycle, then it will become an issue.
Since most people try to have a cushion of at least 10-15% duty cycle with their pump's flow, most people wouldn't run into an issue. Only those running on the edge. That is all I meant by my comment.
Received the new fuel filter, its massive. Where are you guys installing this style filter?
That is the filter i have and it works great.
Hey guys, I hope you don't mind hearing my opinion on all this. But all this sh!t seems awfully complicated.
I understand that many people's performance combinations are build-up over time and develop to support more horsepower as needed. And if a system is in place that works, then yes, you should keep it.
However, why would anyone building a big power car from scratch bother with these different set-ups like double pumps, in tank replacements, or any type of a kit. I know They work. But at this level, why not keep it simple?
I have made tons of mistakes that I wish I had done only once. But thankfully my fuel system wasn't one of them. I use a 12 gallon plastic fuel cell with fuel level sender and vented under the car, Aeromotive Pro pump, #12 pick-up line to the pump, a before and after filter, an Aeromotive Pro regulator, #10 supply and #8 return and 160lb injectors and the factory fuel pump power wire to a relayed 10 gauge power to the pump. Done.
No Hobs switches, no pump controller, no fancy filter housings, no modified or factory stock gas tank. I have over 10 years of street use on this system, a 12 gallon tank safely gets me 150 miles of highway cruising without traffic, I have never had a single problem supplying fuel for my combo, I have never had to adjusted the fuel pressure since start-up, I never smell gasoline unless I spill it (very rare occasion). There's still room in the trunk for my car show chairs and a few bags and some drinks. And all this stuff is neatly under the the trunk's floor deck and easy to service with plenty of room to spare. You can't see any of it from behind the car no matter how far away you are and even from another low ridding vehicle behind me. And if you don't like the pump's noise, then this means your exhaust is too small
One time, 3 years ago, my pump blew a fuse. I wasted no time. I sent it in and it was rebuilt and sent back in a week or so. I happen to use Aeromotive products, but any of the quality big-ass in-line type pumps/filters should do the job just fine for most of us in the 1000-1500 horsepower range. Splitting hairs about fuel system out-put shouldn't even be part of the discussion. Because you shouldn't be that close to even worry about it.
Beautiful set-up Joe.
Good job Joe, that just shows there are many ways to skin a cat. Although I don't get your reasoning for the double pumper analogy not being keeping it simple.?? The double pumper goes into a factory unmodified gas tank with its own wiring harness to supply it proper voltage. Can't get any more simple then that. No switches, no fuel controllers, no headaches, uses my factory fuel guage in the instrument cluster, and above all, no noise. If you trust your ecu to do what it supposed to do, a hobb switch professionally put together in a full proof kit is no different. The hobb switch theory that guys fabricate online is a myth. They don't go bad, no track record of failures etc, just insecurities based on, "what if it doesn't come on" lol. I trust it 110%. No different than trusting your alky kit....
What you are using no doubt supplies ample fuel for your needs. But keep this in mind....I have seen bench testing in lots of fuel pumps, including your own, and your pump after being on for half an hour heats the fuel in your tank to the temperature of hot tea.... It's all the time, full out. A double pumper cruises like a stock Grand National does with one in tank pump submerged, the secondary pump comes on when it's needed and supplies enough fuel for a low 8sec car.
In the end options are always a good thing to have.
BTW, Mike I installed that same fuel filter you just got on my Dad's car where the stock fuel filter was.
Thank you mike. That means a lot coming from a guy with an eye for detail as yourself.
Sorry for the finger in the shot, but here is a pic of the trunk.
Beautiful workmanship as always my friend, I really enjoy following your success. Keep it up Joe.
NY TWIN TURBO your set up looks awesome. I have the Racetronix double pumper because it fits in the stock fuel tank , it's dead silent and on the dyno at 800hp my injector cycle was 68%. I did not hook up the hob switch as i like keeping my fuel pressure as how it was dynoed 50psi. I had the Aeromotive pump before and it failed on me. My car is very quiet therefore a sleeper which many cars have seen the tail lights and follow me to ask what the hell is in it.
Absolutely agree. The need for in tank options is unquestionable. Especially for those "do-it-your-selfers" that wan't a proven product from a trusted vendor so that they won't have to take chances with a "self specified" poor design.
But for me, I actually find the factory fuel tank to be a pain in the ass completely. Years ago, the first time I pulled it, it was to clean, scrape, sand, paint and wash it out to install the old Walbro pump. And then when going stage motor, after needing to upgrade the fuel lines and the whole system in general, pull everything out, do it on my back in the cold winter out side on bad bumpy blacktop, do all the disconnects and pull hoses off.......the whole frigging debacle for me was just too much.
Also, a kit never seems to work for me. There are way too many variables associated with fabrication to the extent I have taken it. I figure that at this level, others may find the same inconveniences. The last time I pulled that tank was the last time I ever touched it again. <----except for when I threw it on J. Cottons parts pile and told him to keep it.
As far as fuel pump choices are concerned, Yes, I also agree. The general idea is to just be absolutely sure you have enough, and that it's reliable, and that it doesn't leak.
Don’t care what anybody else has, drive whatever. If Joey’s TR is not the Josey Wales of ALL TR’s I want to see it. Because it doesn’t exist!!!!
Ray my friend! Oh, it certainly exists.
I'm reminded every day it's there by looking at my dwindling bank account and the freezing numbing sensation working in the cold, back pains, and worn out fingers. Can you hear the violins playing?
The hardest part about owning this thing is that after I believe I'm finished, something I did long ago now needs to be renovated once again . I mean what do you do? Just let it go to crap? I'm always afraid that it won't live up to the photos when people see it in person. For example, I had this car painted in 2001 and babied it endlessly since then, and now I have this crap to deal with (See photo below, bottom of door).
I'm also dealing with an entire re-design of the accessories on top of the engine for the new TR-6 set-up. A build thread is coming soon for a spring release at a theater near you.
I would love to make it to Richard Clark's in the spring. But I would only drive it there and it never seems to work out. I never get my winter projects done on time and the weather is too unpredictable.
It never ends, does it?
Sorry Mike, lets get back to your Twin Turbo thread!
Yes I get what your saying, it does NEVER end. Not to take anything from Mike, his build is killer. Wish you would make it to Richards place, more TR’s in one place then any where in the world. Hell Richard has been messing around for 15 months on my build. Mike sorry for messing around in Your build thread