Stage 2 TT street car

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
Noid light blinks when cranking, pressure at rail is 42psi, fuel pump primes for 3-4 sec. before cranking.
 

gdsims231

Active Member
May 21, 2007
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My 120# will kill a set of plugs quick. And once they are wet, it won’t run. It will try in clear flood, but you can forget it until a fresh set are installed.
 

NY Twin Turbo

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Dec 10, 2014
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Are you sure about the spark?

What happens if you hang the throttle body partially open?

Maybe there is too much fuel and you’re flooding it?
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
I'm looking at the twin pumps wiring, if for some reason both pumps are turning on would that overwhelm the injectors and cause this? How about water in the gas , the tank sat empty for 4 years? What is the fuel pump supposed to do when cranking with throttle closed as opposed to foot to the floor? I pulled off the intake tube to make sure there was nothing stupid like a rag stuck in there and tried to start with it off, same thing.
 

NY Twin Turbo

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Dec 10, 2014
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The fuel pumps will prime for the pre-determined amount of time in the tune when you turn the key. But during cranking they will run again and stay running after start up.

If the throttlebody is held at wide open throttle, The fuel pumps will behave the same. But the XF I won’t command any injection pulse. This is the feature that allows you to clear out flooded cylinders.

But something isn’t right here. I may be oversimplifying it, but if you know you have spark and you know you have fuel the engine has to run. Maybe not run well, Maybe hiccup and fart, but something has to happen.

You said you had Cal Hartline at your garage going through the tune. So I’m going to assume your start-up, warm-up maps, and general tune are set-up at a good base point .

Maybe you should share what bases were covered when you guys were working on it together. Otherwise everyone is just going to throw out all kinds of silly suggestions that you have already eliminated as possible problems.
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
I went through the no start chart again today and discovered the coils were bad on cyl. 1 & 3. During my first troubleshooting session back in July both Cal & Bob said to pull off the TR6 as sometimes it does not work with FAST. So I put my stock system back on the car. So today I find the coil pack I put on was bad (brand new BTW), I put on an old one I had lying around and now have a solid spark on cyl. 1,3 & 5, so I'm now good on spark. Still won't start but I'm 1 step closer.
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
This is a pic of the dash, key on engine off and a pic of the cranking fuel graph. Cal set up all the tuning.
dash key on.JPG
cranking.JPG
 

NY Twin Turbo

All the good stuff.....Times 2.
Dec 10, 2014
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back in July both Cal & Bob said to pull off the TR6 as sometimes it does not work with FAST.
I never had a problem with this. Then again, all my coils were good to start. TR-6 and XFI work well together for me. But I was going to recommend checking the dip switch settings and LED indicators in the TR-6. But you have already put back on the stocker. So, I guess that can't be it.
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
I pulled the plugs and they were all wet, so I'll let them stay out for a few days. I'm also going to drain the tank and throw in 4 gallons of fresh gas. Does the cranking fuel graph above look acceptable?
Mike
 

NY Twin Turbo

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Dec 10, 2014
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I am no expert. I have never set-up an XFI tune for anyone.......ever! But this seems to work for start-up for me and maybe me alone.

My car has 160lb injectors and a 90mm throttle body . And it starts with only the turn of a key. No foot work or double cranking is required. A very short rough transition takes place before it goes into a smooth high RPM idle. And then it idles down to a steady 1000 RPM at everything between 146 and 182 degrees. My base timing in the idle area is around 26 degrees. I have a little timing trim programmed to control idle torque because I have no accessories (no power steering, no AC, no idler pulley, no water pump) just an alternator. My cranking timing is only 18 degrees. As little as you can have it and still have the motor start smoothly.

I also have large crashes or climbs in my maps after 187 degrees. I simply do what I can to cause the motor to stall because I don't let the engine run if it gets hotter than that.

These are some of my settings below.

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Mike E

Mr. Badwrench
Oct 9, 2006
1,413
203
63
41
Hendersonville, TN
This is a pic of the dash, key on engine off and a pic of the cranking fuel graph. Cal set up all the tuning.
View attachment 331086
Key on, engine off your fuel pump should have primed and you should be showing some fuel pressure. It says 0 above. FP correction is 80%. Does the fuel pressure ever show anything? It's possible you have fuel pressure, but the sensor, settings or wiring has issues. If you have 42 lbs. of pressure and the ECU is trying to add 80% injector pulse width, it will dump a ton of fuel in.

You could try just turning off fuel pressure correction.
 

Mike E

Mr. Badwrench
Oct 9, 2006
1,413
203
63
41
Hendersonville, TN
Also, What is your crank reference angle in the XFI? I made a jig for Chris so he could move the trigger wheel on those ATI balancers to 50 BTDC. I don't know if he did that to yours or not. That's not likely your cause though if it starts in flood mode.
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
Key on, engine off your fuel pump should have primed and you should be showing some fuel pressure. It says 0 above. FP correction is 80%. Does the fuel pressure ever show anything? It's possible you have fuel pressure, but the sensor, settings or wiring has issues. If you have 42 lbs. of pressure and the ECU is trying to add 80% injector pulse width, it will dump a ton of fuel in.

You could try just turning off fuel pressure correction.
I don't have any fuel pressure sensors, just a gauge on the rail which shows 41psi. Is this something I should install (is it a FAST part?). Factory oil pressure sensor is long gone.
Mike
 

hemi8

Goin Sideways
Jun 6, 2001
866
85
28
Virginia
I am no expert. I have never set-up an XFI tune for anyone.......ever! But this seems to work for start-up for me and maybe me alone.

My car has 160lb injectors and a 90mm throttle body . And it starts with only the turn of a key. No foot work or double cranking is required. A very short rough transition takes place before it goes into a smooth high RPM idle. And then it idles down to a steady 1000 RPM at everything between 146 and 182 degrees. My base timing in the idle area is around 26 degrees. I have a little timing trim programmed to control idle torque because I have no accessories (no power steering, no AC, no idler pulley, no water pump) just an alternator. My cranking timing is only 18 degrees. As little as you can have it and still have the motor start smoothly.

I also have large crashes or climbs in my maps after 187 degrees. I simply do what I can to cause the motor to stall because I don't let the engine run if it gets hotter than that.

These are some of my settings below.

View attachment 331103View attachment 331105View attachment 331107View attachment 331109View attachment 331110View attachment 331111View attachment 331112View attachment 331113
Me as well, I don't really want to know, I just want the damn thing to start and run good enough to take it to someone who knows what they are doing with FAST. To have the car towed out of my garage is like the walk of shame for a gearhead.
Mike
 

Mike E

Mr. Badwrench
Oct 9, 2006
1,413
203
63
41
Hendersonville, TN
I don't have any fuel pressure sensors, just a gauge on the rail which shows 41psi. Is this something I should install (is it a FAST part?). Factory oil pressure sensor is long gone.
Mike
You don't need a fuel pressure sensor on the FAST. It was just one of the parameters on your dash (circled red below). Notice FP correction circled green. I'm not sure if that shows whether the fuel pressure correction is turned on or not, but you should check it. If you don't have the fuel pressure sensor, it should not be turned on. It's in the fuel settings if I remember correctly. (edit: found a pic online)


dash.jpg

2017-01-06 09.06.57.jpg
 

Mike E

Mr. Badwrench
Oct 9, 2006
1,413
203
63
41
Hendersonville, TN
Another idea. Did Cal send you a whole new file to try? Or are you working from some old file that's been modified multiple times? It might be worthwhile to start with a whole new tune file, maybe the old one is corrupt.

I'll be honest, if Cal has helped you and he couldn't find it, It's going to be a tough one to figure out. Or it's a problem unrelated to the efi.