Stock ECM or Fast XFI???

[JCotton]

Congradulations on you sales Jack. Im not being sarcastic, really congrats. I would be very interested in hearing the before and after results for the three combos. Lets see how much faster they can go and how long it takes them to do so. Now that's real world proof.
That is the point of buying it right...upgrade...faster...better... right?:wink:

Jas, I've been selling, installing and tuning FAST since it first came out.... I tried it knowing nothing about it. I just know I was not able to get a few drivability problems straightened out that were just killing me. Which included not being able to run WOT without it breaking up. Back then I tried every chip I could find, replaced everything I could under the hood and no matter what, it was never quite right. Someone suggested I try their Gen 6 that was just sitting there while their engine was being rebuilt... 5 minutes after a quicky install... I was not only running WOT, but the car was so much faster I could not believe it... shortly there after FAST came out with their new product, I jumped on board, looked much easier and more sophisticated than the GEN6..... I never looked back, I taught myself with help from Harry H.
In my case, I heard the same stories over and over for years,I'd like to think that all the units I have installed and sold to all those customers left a happy customer. You see, I'm not telling anyone to switch over from a chip and they'll go faster, I'm simply offering an option when the situation calls for it. Do you understand, or have you been brainwashed as well as to my motivation. I simply want to share what I know works... period. This is not a contest or a game, my many years of tuning with great results with many customers is the proof in the pudding. Jim has done a WONDERFUL JOB here explaining how a FAST works, he is the best example you will ever see of what a little bit of reading will get you. What do you know about a FAST? Have you ever tried one, ever tried to tune or understand what it can do? I have many customers that just have me tune it and forget it.

The point of a FAST is not to replace a chip to "upgrade" or go faster, it is to solve problems when other ways have failed. It's an option if one can see its benefits. One last good example..... I installed a FAST on the Pumpkin when it was a bone stock 86 white Ttype. That same unit, "chip" was the same box I ran into the 9's many years ago. That 13 second stocker never had a chip or 5 sets of injectors to get there during each series of upgrades over the next 4 years. I don't think I ever blew a set of head gaskets either during that period. I wiped out a hydraulic tappet cam when I was running 10.7's. Back then that was unheard of... running 10's 8-10 years ago was not exactly common on a stock block. I dropped in a stage motor and still run the same block but finally upgraded my "chip" to an XFI..... I never planned in a million years to go this FAST..:biggrin:

If anyone wants a tran Gen2, there is another one up for sale by a customer upgrading to a Fast listed in the for sale section of my BB... go get it and save yourself a few bucks... in fact I have one from another car, new in the box, I'll list after Claude sells his...

This is in no way taking anything away from TT and Eric, he is the best out there... the best chips we have ever used..

 

[Grumpy]

Gumpy acts like he dropped a chip in and ran 9's....... it wasn't that simple.

NO we didn't ... read what I typed.. we dropped it in and ran 10.80s out of the box .. NO adjustments to the really difficult tunable TT chip .. oh Jack ..IF guys can't tune with a chip they sure than hell are not goin to do it with a fast system ok I am done picking on you.. ok everyone NEEDS a Fast system

 

[scot w.]

F.A.S.T vs ECM

FWIW I myself went from f.a.s.t back to the stock ECM and went faster!

This subject will always be beat to death!

So here is what I Belive. I belive that the F.A.S.T system is nice for a race application AND IF, THAT'S " IF " someone is close to you who really knows what they are doing to show you & teach you and they are willing and able to come and spend the time FINE TUNING the car, "It's useless"!! And what I mean by "fine tuning" is: " THE DRIVABILITY STUFF!!" The after start, The throttle follower, ALL that crap! Bottom line here is, WITHOUT someone who knows what they are doing to dial that stuff in, the F.A.S.T. system will take the average person who knows NOTHING about it FOREVER to get the car where you want it.

What most people new to the F.A.S.T don't realize is the factory ECM is COMPLETELY GONE! and now the entire car is up to you to tell it what to do! The entire cars operation depends on what you tell it to do and that is what takes a long time to grasp!!

Basically,

Street car = Hell NO! and especially with someone NOT FAMILIAR with tuning it !!!
Race car = Sure, The race cars don't need all the drivability tuning to run WOT!! and 90% of the start up tunes will get you really close for racing..

I switched from the F.A.S.T to the TRANS PRO and the car ran the best ever! From installing it the driveability was awesome! The WOT was awesome! The part throttle tune was awesome! and it got better gas mileage! AND all this tuning took a total of one week!!! :biggrin: WALA, DONE!

That's my experiance with F.A.S.T and my experiance with Trans-Pro...

THEY BOTH WORK! ONE JUST MORE USER FREINDLY FOR STREET DRIVEN CARS!!!

Having a Guy that REALLY knows the F.A.S.T system that is WILLING & ABLE to come and get your car tuned in IS KEY!!!

THE CARS PERFORMANCE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE TUNE!!

Scot W.

 

[JCotton]

NO we didn't ... read what I typed.. we dropped it in and ran 10.80s out of the box .. NO adjustments to the really difficult tunable TT chip .. oh Jack ..IF guys can't tune with a chip they sure than hell are not goin to do it with a fast system ok I am done picking on you.. ok everyone NEEDS a Fast system

Thank God, I was beginning to get a complex.... by the way, I don't believe the TT chips are difficult to tune out of the box at all.... you ran 10.80... ok, back to watching the Blow Sox...

 

[Grumpy]

Scott you said it better than me I forget most guys don't drive their cars all over the place as a driver :biggrin:

 

[bsdlinux]

Scott you said it better than me I forget most guys don't drive their cars all over the place as a driver :biggrin:

But some do :biggrin:

 

[JCotton]

Scot, where did you get the FAST from... a little detail about your situation with the FAST would be nice..

 

[Grumpy]

But some do :biggrin:

thats the fun of these cars ..drive em and enjoy them.. your dead for a long time :biggrin:

 

[scot w.]

Scott you said it better than me I forget most guys don't drive their cars all over the place as a driver :biggrin:

I don't mean to bash on any product at all!! They work fine for others and not so good for some. period!

It is what it is!! I personally have been down that road and Iv'e seen that movie and know how it ends!! :biggrin:

Scot W.

 

[Boost231]

thanks for posting all this info. So XFI is the way to go as long as you have someone that can tune it close to you. Check.

 

[Super6]

Fast

this thread made me want to buy a Fast...very good information on the pros and cons. my opinion, if a guy or gal wants every bit of horsepower out of their car and wants to change a lot of things the Fast is the way to go with support from Vendors like Jack Cotton. i buy from vendors that i
can talk to either in person or over the phone..if they don't give me the time of day i look elsewhere and keep my $ in my pocket ....i currently run the ME-R with wideband correction.. i have had go luck but i am limited to as to what i can do..it is simple and can put the #'s up but a I will upgrade as soon as i get faster i will call Jack for sure.......................Bob

 

[scot w.]

Scot, where did you get the FAST from... a little detail about your situation with the FAST would be nice..

Jack your a very nice guy and I respect you, But I deffinetly know where this is heading and I don't wish to re-hash it. The bottom line is that I KNEW NOTHING about the system and Cal was kind enough to send me a start up tune and I ended up having to limp my Pig rich car around for 6mo (not due to Cal at all). Took it to BG and had Cal look at a few things but it was clear there wasn't enough time to do the FINE tuning issues that were at hand. I was a complete Novice with F.A.S.T and for a 90% street car I myself had No buisness having that system on my street car!!
If any of my freinds ask "Think I should get a f.a.s.t system?" The VERY FIRST thing I ask them would be " What's the car mainly used for?" If they say 60% street or more than I would suggest NO!

For 60% race or more YES!

I SOLD The F.A.S.T system and with that money I bought all the Trans-Pro stuff. TurboDave installed it all for me while I recovered from a surgery and it took him just one week to dial it in and when he was done the car NEVER ran SO GOOD! The cold starts were GREAT (no more 8 starts for it just to idle), The complete drivability of the car was better ALL AROUND!

Jack I could write a Novel with the issues I had with f.a.s.t and I really would like to forget about that point in my life! :biggrin:

Scot W.

 

[scot w.]

thanks for posting all this info. So XFI is the way to go as long as you have someone that can tune it close to you. Check.

Switching from your STOCK ECM to a full managment system is fine as long as you have someone close to you to dial in the car for you so you don't Waste hours upon hours on the phone with vendors!! I also helps to have that same someone near by while he is tuning your car that he can show you hands on, in person along the way so you can get some kind of a grasp on what you need to be doing!!!

Check?

Scot W.

 

[Fuelie600]

So XFI is the way to go as long as you have someone that can tune it close to you. Check.

Not at all. Jacks start up program will get you there. I do all my own drivability tuning, and it is as simple as a click and drag of the mouse. Want to add timing or fuel? This takes just moments. Make a pass---go back to the pits and make your changes. It's really pretty simple. I drive my GN on the streets, and it will go anywhere while having excellent manners. If you need, Jack is only a phone call away with fantastic support. It's not hard to self teach yourself with XFI, and it certainly beats waiting on the mailman to see if [maybe] the next chip will solve your problem.

 

[3.8vsix]

When I posted this last night I never dreamed I would get this much response! Still not sure which to get Looks like both have their advantages and disavantages. Thanks for all the great info!!!

 

[scot w.]

Not at all. Jacks start up program will get you there. I do all my own drivability tuning, and it is as simple as a click and drag of the mouse. Want to add timing or fuel? This takes just moments. Make a pass---go back to the pits and make your changes. It's really pretty simple. I drive my GN on the streets, and it will go anywhere while having excellent manners. If you need, Jack is only a phone call away with fantastic support. It's not hard to self teach yourself with XFI, and it certainly beats waiting on the mailman to see if [maybe] the next chip will solve your problem.

LOL SO what your saying here is that a Complete Novice that knows absolutely NOTHING about the F.A.S.T system can just make those changes as simple as "click & drag?"

I know the vendors get you very close with there start up tune's! That's NOT what i'm saying here!!

For someone who knows advanced knowledge about tuning and have used the f.a.s.t sytem before " It would be fine!!"

For someone that don't know anything at all with tuning NO!! much less having to adjust EVERYTHING themselves. it's overwhelming and confusing to say the least FOR A NOVICE!
Thats all I meant...

Scot W.

 

[Boost231]

3.8vsix What motor is this for? Im getting mine from nick since he built my motor tranny and all that other stuff. Also the CHECK was for having someone close to help tune.

 

[3.8vsix]

3.8vsix What motor is this for? Im getting mine from nick since he built my motor tranny and all that other stuff. Also the CHECK was for having someone close to help tune.

This is for my TA alum motor.

 

[Dr.drivability]

xfi

Hey Jack. Just for the record. Put my xfi in on a wednesday night, called jack and added a little timming and thursday night smoked the f##k out of a 10.2 and 9sumthing car on his start up program. No other tuning yet!!! Now if I could just get those damn headers!! Dave

 

[turbojimmy]

NO we didn't ... read what I typed.. we dropped it in and ran 10.80s out of the box .. NO adjustments to the really difficult tunable TT chip .. oh Jack ..IF guys can't tune with a chip they sure than hell are not goin to do it with a fast system ok I am done picking on you.. ok everyone NEEDS a Fast system

I really hope that's not directed at me. Even if it isn't, I don't appreciate the inference.

I've had a lot of problems with the car over the past few years that have nothing to do with my ability or inability to tune it. It's a 10-second car with a 14-second transmission, that's all. I put my faith and $$ in the wrong trans guy, plain and simple. Ultimately he destroyed my engine, too.

I just got tired of turning on the parking lights, flicking the A/C on and off, watching the grid on the DirectScan and looking at the little cheat sheet I printed up and put in my console to figure out what I had my chip set at. Then you unhook the battery and it forgets it all. Maybe chips have come a long way in the past few years, but that's been my experience.

You've made your point: Melissa's magical, simple combo is the only way to go and anything else is silly and a waste of money and time. I think we get that after reading it hundreds of times. And you are somehow sure, despite never having used one, that a FAST system is way more complicated than using a 20-year-old ECM, a piggy-back controller and a tunable chip. Maybe, just maybe, guys that can't tune with a TT chip will find that FAST actually is a much easier, simpler way to tune. But you really wouldn't know that unless you've sat behind the screen and tried it.

Jim