Stock ECM or Fast XFI???

[JCotton]

Thanks Jack, now you have me thinking of a long road trip that involves fried clams, Polar Cola and spending a lot of money....:biggrin: (BTW: I'm not sure all of the farting was coming from the cars)

Save the fried clams... I'm coming to the big Buick weekend at Richard Clarks in NC, I can do installs and tuning down there... I can make up my own New England style tarter sauce..... if they're fried and some hot cocktail sauce if ya wanna just crack em open and we'll eat em alive!!!

 

[Tony Shoaff]

I guess Jack you do not want me to buy one from you?

 

[kh440]

Save the fried clams... I'm coming to the big Buick weekend at Richard Clarks in NC, I can do installs and tuning down there... I can make up my own New England style tarter sauce..... if they're fried and some hot cocktail sauce if ya wanna just crack em open and we'll eat em alive!!!

Depending on what happens between now and October (car related and otherwise) you may be on! Have not had good clams of any kind since I left the south shore area (Scituate, to be exact!)

 

[turbojimmy]

NOT everyone NEEDS a Fast system, 70 turbo, front mount and a lot of "other" trinkets to run in the 10's

That's true. I need all that stuff to run 11s

Jim

 

[JCotton]

I guess Jack you do not want me to buy one from you?

Easy there my brother...... can you give me a call at the shop. You know I'll set you up...

 

[kh440]

Easy there my brother...... can you give me a call at the shop. You know I'll set you up...

I'll call you end of this week/first of next week for sure. Did you ever get more champion intakes yet? they were still MIA when we spoke last (end of July)

 

[Tony Shoaff]

I will call you. Let me see if I can sell my other management stuff first. I do not need two systems.

 

[JCotton]

NOT everyone NEEDS a Fast system, 70 turbo, front mount and a lot of "other" trinkets to run in the 10's .. It may take a little more brain work to push into the 9s and then drive the car from the track and go look for a place to eat for 2 hours!! (hey we got lost !! ) .. ahhh the net !! :biggrin:

Riiiight.... you crack me up,:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: like you went out and ran a 9.90... on a stock block too.... not a lot of differance between a frt mnt and a PTE stock location.. what... maybe 12" on the location.... 67 vs 70 turbo.... not much differance there either. what trinkets.. they all need fuel systems, good trannys, suspension and rears.. after that it's the driver that decides if he wants polished aluminum pulleys, valve covers.. whatever their wim is for what they want their car to look like... hmmm come to think of it... I kinda like some o dem trinkets on my car.... hey!!! some of them even like colored IC hoses, red plug wires and even alky for a happy hour..

 

[jasjamz]

Grumpy, we are wasting our key strokes...
Keep up the good work Sir!

 

[Grumpy]

Riiiight.... you crack me up,:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: like you went out and ran a 9.90... on a stock block too.... not a lot of differance between a frt mnt and a PTE stock location.. what... maybe 12" on the location.... 67 vs 70 turbo.... not much differance there either. what trinkets.. they all need fuel systems, good trannys, suspension and rears.. after that it's the driver that decides if he wants polished aluminum pulleys, valve covers.. whatever their wim is for what they want their car to look like... hmmm come to think of it... I kinda like some o dem trinkets on my car.... hey!!! some of them even like colored IC hoses, red plug wires and even alky for a happy hour..

yup ... stock short block, crank, and rods with a girdle and a set of pistons .. added the sfi balancer and flex plate last year to be legal running as fast as she is . if ya want Ill search the thread I made for the build up .. lots of people have copied it from some of the signatures I read Read what I said.. we keep things fairly simple .. PTE intercooler instead of a front mount (any difference in size ??? come on put on your glasses and OPEN your eyes ) bigger parts like turbos need bigger converters .. Thats when streetability starts goin away along with gas mileage :biggrin:
now back to the original post .. you don't NEED a Fast system to run in the 10s today!! Technology has changed so much including the Fast systems AND the Chip programming.. so if ya want it simple like an old person like me go with a chip.. IF ya want to play and try tuning the Fast knock yourself out. a 10 sec car was rare years ago.. now EVERYONE runs 10s ...right ??

 

[TURBO 6]

I have to agree with Dan, but I'm sure it's nice to have an XFI. Chip technology is far more advanced than it was years ago. Stock ecm's are flying these days with the help of Eric Marshall, Steve Yaklin and Bob Bailey. WBO2 correction, speed density, no maf. Works like a FAST. 6 one way half a dozen the other way.


FWIW If I knew it would be an immediate gain from running an XFI I'd buy one. But I can't justify 2 large for something I know I can do without.

 

[86brick]

As some old probably dead person said a LONG time ago~ "There's more than one way to skin a cat!"

As others have already mentioned I think it really depends on the person's goals for the car as well as how much of a learning curve they are willing to deal with. Obviously if a person decides to get an aftermarket system it's very important to make sure you purchase it from a vendor that will provide great support such as Jack or Cal.

 

[kh440]

As some old probably dead person said a LONG time ago~ "There's more than one way to skin a cat!"

.

But the cat is probably not going to like any of them......

But seriously; Is it safe to say that the main advantage of these systems would be the fact it is a bit easier to fine tune the car?

 

[TURBO 6]

That's correct. FAST has more capability for the end user to fine tune. You may have to get a chip burned a few times before you end up with same result.

 

[JCotton]

Grumpy, we are wasting our key strokes...
Keep up the good work Sir!

Not at all, I have said from the beginning... they all work!!! but to make it sound like you just,"pop in a chip and go" is ludicrous.... To continually take shots at FAST by guys like Gumpy and act as though the cost of a FAST is out of sight compared to a chip car is BS. There is much more that goes into tuning a chip or a Tpro than what one would be led to believe, just look at all the guys that have posted in frustration. I have also always said FAST is not for everyone, but if you want to pose comparisons, then lets be honest about the examples, stop the sugar coating and BS. I don't need to post into these thread, but if someone asked..... I feel an obligation to answer. I don't need to attack chip users like a few seem to come in and do me... well at least one.... that has a definite obsession withbusting my chops... thats ok, I can handle, just feel sorry for the viewers here that know whats going on or aren't given the whole story.... Gumpy acts like he dropped a chip in and ran 9's....... it wasn't that simple. Next he'll be telling you he ran 9's with a 44 and an .82 housing.... funny stuff there... 86Brick hit it on the head... I couldn't agree more, no need to BS trying to prove one's point.. guess I'll take the 10 minute ride home and have dinner with my sweetheart now. Thanks, this thread sure did make the day go by fast.. heck.... I even sold 3 XFI's while.... hammering the keyboard today.

 

[turbojimmy]

But seriously; Is it safe to say that the main advantage of these systems would be the fact it is a bit easier to fine tune the car?

Yes. It's like having an infinite number of chips at your disposal. You can instantly change anything that a 'programmable' chip can change plus everything else that would require a new chip to be burned. You download preset configurations that you've created from your laptop the same way you'd change chips. Or you can change the settings on the fly to see what works then save it to a file for future use. If you don't like your changes, re-download the original configuration and you're back where you started.

Go to the FAST website and download the user's guide and software (both are free). Read the user's guide and tinker with the software. That's what sold me.

Jim

 

[jasjamz]

Congradulations on you sales Jack. Im not being sarcastic, really congrats. I would be very interested in hearing the before and after results for the three combos. Lets see how much faster they can go and how long it takes them to do so. Now that's real world proof.
That is the point of buying it right...upgrade...faster...better... right?:wink:

 

[BlackBandit]

IMO, and take it or leave it because I haven't pushed my car to the tens (because of my lack of safety equipment and I don't want to push the engine because I can't build another right now if something goes wrong) and I haven't used FAST. That said I think the extender chip/maf pro combo is hard to beat. I discussed this with another board member in a different thread and really there's not much FAST can do that the stock ECM and a transpro can't. The one notable exception that comes to mind would be the ability to twist the motor up above about 6500 rpm. That's definitely a limiting factor when using the stock ECM. Other than that most of the stuff I hear mentioned is fairly superfluous. I mean, the ease of use stuff is great and not everyone wants to "figure stuff out" and in that instance FAST can be a bonus, but it doesn't mean FAST is safer or will make your car faster. It just means it might be more user friendly and therefore allow people who can't or don't want to learn how to use the stock stuff without the interface (and there's nothing wrong with that) to tune there cars properly. Everything has it's place but it does seem like more and more people are looking at FAST as a requirement in slower and slower cars. Then again, that's just my impression and maybe it's way off.

Another thing to think about is how "over built" the combo is. I mean, if you build an 8 or 9 second combo then 10's shouldn't be any harder than falling off of a log. In that case you shouldn't be running the engine close to the edge and shouldn't need the tuning ability that would be needed in a combo that's barely able to run tens in which case a stock ECM and chip would be fine. FWIW I figured I'd go with the transpro because given that my goals over the next several years don't involve me going faster than 10's I couldn't justify the FAST. Also though, I'm a dork that likes to screw with my car just as much as I like to drive it. Sorry to ramble. I guess in summation for the OP I wouldn't think FAST would make your tune safer but if you're willing to spend the cash for the ease of use and if you wouldn't have to sacrifice other areas of the build then if it's what you want to do then there's nothing wrong with that. If you have to make concessions to get the FAST though I would hold off. I mean, it doesn't matter what provides the fuel air and spark, only that it's there.

 

[Pronto]

I'm a tuning "novice". I recently installed the Power Logger and find it facinating to see all that info. I will be adding a WB O2 to it. So while reading up on all the new Power Logger stuff I found Eric has a new chip that uses the O2 readings on the Powerlogger to do WOT fuel correction. For advanced users he even has a chip that does away with the Maf and uses speed density with all the Powerlogger info. Today's chips are way more advanced than my first Thrasher chip from years ago. I don't know if I will ever "need" FAST but if I did decide to go that route it would be with Jack but for now I got plenty to learn with these new chips.

 

[bison]

For the ultimate in adjustability as well as available traction control the FAST XFI is hard to beat. Chips work but as Jack stated to have the reliability you need to run a bunch more than just a chip and stock ecm. I found the FAST very easy to use myself. Otto taught me a lot in a short amount of time. I dont no anywhere as much as some but i feel i know how to adjust 85% of the potential parameters. If your going fast enough to need one then you should have the ability to learn the programming yourself. Id say once you hit 100hp per hole its time to get to know better engine management. If chips were the way to go in a really serious car then the fastest would be running them.