The Radius Kid
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So you have offered a replacement to him "all in".
What's the end cost to him?
I'm not trying to be a pr*ck here,just curious?
stolen car parts
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So you have offered a replacement to him "all in".
What's the end cost to him?
I'm not trying to be a pr*ck here,just curious?
John, what does "All in" mean? I've never heard of that term. Must be Canadian English... :tongue:
On the final price, let me repeat to you that I was not responsible for any of his loss so providing details of about an offered act of good will serves no purpose other than giving people who have no stake in this a chance to judge the amount of generosity extended. I've already mentioned the amount I discounted it so that's all I'm going to say. BTW, The bore of the TB has a blem or two, as castings often will have, but it looks like all the others from outer appearances and will function just as well. as any. That's the only reason I still had it on hand and had not sold it on Ebay.
Thanks
Steve
On the final price, let me repeat to you that I was not responsible for any of his loss so providing details of about an offered act of good will serves no purpose other than giving people who have no stake in this a chance to judge the amount of generosity extended. I've already mentioned the amount I discounted it so that's all I'm going to say. BTW, The bore of the TB has a blem or two, as castings often will have, but it looks like all the others from outer appearances and will function just as well. as any. That's the only reason I still had it on hand and had not sold it on Ebay.
Thanks
Steve
The Radius Kid
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Sorry Steve.:tongue:
"All in" refers to you supplying everything[parts,machining,etc.]
A minor blem in the bore shouldn't affect it's operation any more than the price of tea in China.
I can understand you keeping your offer off the board and private.
I guess I would too.
Mike Licht
I was here first
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And people wonder why vendors have an attitude, move on or close up. Another typical "don't worry we can slam the vendor on the boards and make him pay, who cares if it was not his fault" simple blackmail IMO
SouthernCal GN
I come in peace....AK AK
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Way to step up... the icing would be a public apology.
Oh yes! I completely agree with that apology suggestion!
Broke1 and Tom H should immediately apologize!!
Jeremy never came on here to blast me. He wanted ppl to be on the lookout for his stolen parts.
90% of the reason this thread went the way it did was b/c of the two above named individuals who had no stake in it and no business butting in.
Broke1 and Tom H should immediately apologize!!
Jeremy never came on here to blast me. He wanted ppl to be on the lookout for his stolen parts.
90% of the reason this thread went the way it did was b/c of the two above named individuals who had no stake in it and no business butting in.
fast eddie
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Wow, see what you miss when you don't read every thread!
So this is the thread TB admin is getting bashed over. Lets see, we get bashed for removing a thread that contained completely personal information about a family. Then we get bashed for "not" removing one that pertains solely to a feedback issue. Until today I had no idea Steve Monroe was stevemon on the boards and that he did this type of work. I did not read this thread.
Steve is not a vendor on this board, but we wouldn't allow personal attacks on his family. I am very sorry Steve for the language and tone taken by a few in this thread, board is supposed to be G RATED.
I am glad you and your customer worked out the issue. My opinion doesn't mean squat but how can a vendor be responsible for something that was delivered and stolen
If he offered, as it appears he did, any kind of help he did more than he had too. Call summit or jegs after a part is confirmed delivered and say it was stolen and see what you get.....
Alot of vendors get tired of being trashed for minor crap that is no fault of their own or sometimes mistakes just happen. We loose a few more every year so we need to give them a little credit IMO....
We want people to leave feedback but be fair to both parties. A few went overboard here.
Last warning on the language for a few, please leave the cussing out. It is not that hard. TB is G rated. If you must cuss on line we play a little at T6P but not here....
So this is the thread TB admin is getting bashed over. Lets see, we get bashed for removing a thread that contained completely personal information about a family. Then we get bashed for "not" removing one that pertains solely to a feedback issue. Until today I had no idea Steve Monroe was stevemon on the boards and that he did this type of work. I did not read this thread.
Steve is not a vendor on this board, but we wouldn't allow personal attacks on his family. I am very sorry Steve for the language and tone taken by a few in this thread, board is supposed to be G RATED.
I am glad you and your customer worked out the issue. My opinion doesn't mean squat but how can a vendor be responsible for something that was delivered and stolen
If he offered, as it appears he did, any kind of help he did more than he had too. Call summit or jegs after a part is confirmed delivered and say it was stolen and see what you get.....Alot of vendors get tired of being trashed for minor crap that is no fault of their own or sometimes mistakes just happen. We loose a few more every year so we need to give them a little credit IMO....
We want people to leave feedback but be fair to both parties. A few went overboard here.
Last warning on the language for a few, please leave the cussing out. It is not that hard. TB is G rated. If you must cuss on line we play a little at T6P but not here....
Yes, BUT ... Jegs & Summit "declare" (ie, essentially "insure") the full value of a shipment, they don't need to be told to do something this basic ... that was my original point.
Unfortunately, tempers flared, various people's positions got hardened and "dug in", and everything went downhill from there.
Somewhere up above I got name-called "no better than the thief" , which is profoundly insulting and derogatory. Yeah, that's a really good way to persuade me to retract and/or apologize for any of my statements.
After more information became available, my original statement to the effect "hold the vendor accountable for neglecting insurance" was perhaps premature and regretable.
But I stand by my belief that a business should have the good sense to 'declare' the full & true value of their shipments, without having to be explicitly instructed to do so by the customer ...
[
But I stand by my belief that a business should have the good sense to 'declare' the full & true value of their shipments, without having to be explicitly instructed to do so by the customer ...[/QUOTE]
Tom you never dealt with shipping out of the continental US apparently. You would be shocked how many customers want insurance lowered but are the first to lose it when something happens.There are customers in the US that also do not want to spend the extra $ for insurance.I simply do not give them that option anymore.
Steve I didn't read this whole thread & I'm not going to. We have been friends for a while & that is good enough for me.
Not taking anything away from us either Tom but we are on a different shipping level.
Mike Licht And people wonder why vendors have an attitude, move on or close up. Another typical "don't worry we can slam the vendor on the boards and make him pay, who cares if it was not his fault" simple blackmail IMO
That is the reality Mike
But I stand by my belief that a business should have the good sense to 'declare' the full & true value of their shipments, without having to be explicitly instructed to do so by the customer ...[/QUOTE]
Tom you never dealt with shipping out of the continental US apparently. You would be shocked how many customers want insurance lowered but are the first to lose it when something happens.There are customers in the US that also do not want to spend the extra $ for insurance.I simply do not give them that option anymore.
Steve I didn't read this whole thread & I'm not going to. We have been friends for a while & that is good enough for me.
Not taking anything away from us either Tom but we are on a different shipping level.
Mike Licht And people wonder why vendors have an attitude, move on or close up. Another typical "don't worry we can slam the vendor on the boards and make him pay, who cares if it was not his fault" simple blackmail IMO
That is the reality Mike
Wow, see what you miss when you don't read every thread!
So this is the thread TB admin is getting bashed over. Lets see, we get bashed for removing a thread that contained completely personal information about a family. Then we get bashed for "not" removing one that pertains solely to a feedback issue. Until today I had no idea Steve Monroe was stevemon on the boards and that he did this type of work. I did not read this thread.
Steve is not a vendor on this board, but we wouldn't allow personal attacks on his family. I am very sorry Steve for the language and tone taken by a few in this thread, board is supposed to be G RATED.
I am glad you and your customer worked out the issue. My opinion doesn't mean squat but how can a vendor be responsible for something that was delivered and stolen
Alot of vendors get tired of being trashed for minor crap that is no fault of their own or sometimes mistakes just happen. We loose a few more every year so we need to give them a little credit IMO....
We want people to leave feedback but be fair to both parties. A few went overboard here.
Last warning on the language for a few, please leave the cussing out. It is not that hard. TB is G rated. If you must cuss on line we play a little at T6P but not here....
For the record; I didn't ask for the thread to be removed. I am also a vendor. I don't buy ads b/c the small number of Buick TBs I sell would only cover the ads.
Thanks all.
Steve Monroe
You should have considered the consequences before you suggested Jeremy lie about the pkg not being delivered. I spoke truthfully in this post. You were the one who suggested Jeremy be dishonest in order to get a new TB & plenum. Your indignity amazes me!
And you are for telling him to LIE about recieving it.
But Customer never actually "received" the goods in his hands.
For USPS shipments like this, I honestly don't know where the "FOB Point" is defined to be ... but for more expensive shipments it is not as straightforward as some of you seem to think, and there is a lot of wrangling over where exactly the "FOB point" will be.
if FOB Point is at seller's shipping dock, then legal title to goods passes to buyer at that point, and buyer is responsible for arranging delivery to himself, and assumes risk for all loss/damage beyond the shipping dock.
If FOB Point is buyer's premises, then seller is responsible for getting it there and seller legally assumes risk of loss/damage.
For ordinary UPS/Fedex shipments, from past experience I know that shipper has to file a claim for losses, not the receiver. The shipper is the one "on the hook". Shipper bears at least some of the responsibility for assuring safe arrival, when using these services.
For USPS I don't actually know the real, detailed rules ... since I would not be so foolish as to use USPS for anything of significant value.
What if a buyer of goods tells a seller "But I mailed you the check, not my fault you didn't get it, but I still expect to receive the goods". I don't care if seller mailed the money, unless it's in my hands, it doesn't matter.
In this case of the missing throttle body, seller got the money, but buyer did not get the goods. Seller's position "But I mailed it" is not in principle any different than the "checks in the mail". Seller is not absolved of at least some responsibility.
IIRC , Somewhere up above a compromise was offered, where buyer & seller share the loss. Perhaps that was the best achievable compromise, but by now I've completely lost track of the final outcome.
For USPS shipments like this, I honestly don't know where the "FOB Point" is defined to be ... but for more expensive shipments it is not as straightforward as some of you seem to think, and there is a lot of wrangling over where exactly the "FOB point" will be.
if FOB Point is at seller's shipping dock, then legal title to goods passes to buyer at that point, and buyer is responsible for arranging delivery to himself, and assumes risk for all loss/damage beyond the shipping dock.
If FOB Point is buyer's premises, then seller is responsible for getting it there and seller legally assumes risk of loss/damage.
For ordinary UPS/Fedex shipments, from past experience I know that shipper has to file a claim for losses, not the receiver. The shipper is the one "on the hook". Shipper bears at least some of the responsibility for assuring safe arrival, when using these services.
For USPS I don't actually know the real, detailed rules ... since I would not be so foolish as to use USPS for anything of significant value.
What if a buyer of goods tells a seller "But I mailed you the check, not my fault you didn't get it, but I still expect to receive the goods". I don't care if seller mailed the money, unless it's in my hands, it doesn't matter.
In this case of the missing throttle body, seller got the money, but buyer did not get the goods. Seller's position "But I mailed it" is not in principle any different than the "checks in the mail". Seller is not absolved of at least some responsibility.
IIRC , Somewhere up above a compromise was offered, where buyer & seller share the loss. Perhaps that was the best achievable compromise, but by now I've completely lost track of the final outcome.
It was delievered to his door then stolen...not the shippers problem. Telling the guy to lie about it is just down right as low as it gets(and on the net for all to see as well). If you live in a area were you know you have a problem...open a PO box.
Ttype83,
Buyer (turbojitsu85) assumes parts were stolen -- and that's what everyone has seized on -- but from what I gather, the known realities were :
1) USPS web site claims parts were dropped off at correct address.
2) but parts were not there when buyer arrived at premises.
Everything else is intepretation and second-guessing, as no poster (except OP) was actually there.
Maybe parts were mis-delivered to wrong house (I've had this happen), maybe USPS driver ran truck over it, maybe even parts really were stolen (but that's an assumption, not known with certainty).
Under these conditions, it's a true statement that "buyer does not have parts" -- regardless of reason.
And unless FOB point was legally at shipper's dock, then shipper bears at least some of the responsibility.
You may call it "lying to the shipper" ... but a small claims court judge might call it "shippers negligence" or "breach of implied contract" , and rule in favor of the buyer.
You want it black and white, no room for intepretation ... but it's not.
I wonder how this thread would have evolved if it's title had been not "stolen parts", but "Paid for parts that never arrived". I suspect much of the inflammatory rhetoric would never have occurred.
Some of you may be thinking "that's all of lot of fast-talking legal fine-point crapola" , in that case try living in North Korea or Iran and see if a lack of a legal system is to your liking (BTW- I am not a lawyer).
(Now if somewhere above I missed an actual eyewitness account of a theft from doorstep, then I concede what I just wrote may not apply.)
Buyer (turbojitsu85) assumes parts were stolen -- and that's what everyone has seized on -- but from what I gather, the known realities were :
1) USPS web site claims parts were dropped off at correct address.
2) but parts were not there when buyer arrived at premises.
Everything else is intepretation and second-guessing, as no poster (except OP) was actually there.
Maybe parts were mis-delivered to wrong house (I've had this happen), maybe USPS driver ran truck over it, maybe even parts really were stolen (but that's an assumption, not known with certainty).
Under these conditions, it's a true statement that "buyer does not have parts" -- regardless of reason.
And unless FOB point was legally at shipper's dock, then shipper bears at least some of the responsibility.
You may call it "lying to the shipper" ... but a small claims court judge might call it "shippers negligence" or "breach of implied contract" , and rule in favor of the buyer.
You want it black and white, no room for intepretation ... but it's not.
I wonder how this thread would have evolved if it's title had been not "stolen parts", but "Paid for parts that never arrived". I suspect much of the inflammatory rhetoric would never have occurred.
Some of you may be thinking "that's all of lot of fast-talking legal fine-point crapola" , in that case try living in North Korea or Iran and see if a lack of a legal system is to your liking (BTW- I am not a lawyer).
(Now if somewhere above I missed an actual eyewitness account of a theft from doorstep, then I concede what I just wrote may not apply.)
You sound like a bloody Ambulance chasing lawyer and you are playing Semantics. It is Black and white...funny how you are 1 of 2 that don't get it.
Like my sigs says: Customer Service, Principles and Integrity mean a lot to Me..
You sir don't have the last 2...just my option
Like my sigs says: Customer Service, Principles and Integrity mean a lot to Me..
You sir don't have the last 2...just my option
SouthernCal GN
I come in peace....AK AK
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2004
- Messages
- 2,561
Tom, let's put it simply: your mortgage bill is lost/stolen in the mail, and you get assessed a late charge- is it right?
Yes, because the mortgage wasn't paid on time. The mortgage company put the bill in good faith that it would be delivered. Their responsibility ends there.
Likewise, the responsibility for the package ended when Steve shipped it. He was not obligated to offer insurance, nor did the buyer ask. Game over.
The facts;
Steve shipped per the buyer's request. (destroys your argument of 'shipper's neglience' and breach of implied contract)
USPS scans as delivered to the correct address, and left package against their own guidelines.
Claim is with USPS (delivery company) for missing parts.
Your FOB argument holds no water, as there is no FOB contractual clause/contract that buyer and shipper agreed upon. Your recommendation that the buyer " Tell the vendor/machinist you never received the parts, and that he has to make good on it.
What proof does machinist have the parts were even delivered? If the machinst accepted the parts from you, it's his responsibility to guarantee safe return to you.
Seems retarded to ship parts of value without any tracking ...
...shows your lack of integrity.- especially after the opening post specifically stated the part was scanned as delivered.
I'll never sell a part to you, since that is the way you about being a victim.
Yes, because the mortgage wasn't paid on time. The mortgage company put the bill in good faith that it would be delivered. Their responsibility ends there.
Likewise, the responsibility for the package ended when Steve shipped it. He was not obligated to offer insurance, nor did the buyer ask. Game over.
The facts;
Steve shipped per the buyer's request. (destroys your argument of 'shipper's neglience' and breach of implied contract)
USPS scans as delivered to the correct address, and left package against their own guidelines.
Claim is with USPS (delivery company) for missing parts.
Your FOB argument holds no water, as there is no FOB contractual clause/contract that buyer and shipper agreed upon. Your recommendation that the buyer " Tell the vendor/machinist you never received the parts, and that he has to make good on it.
What proof does machinist have the parts were even delivered? If the machinst accepted the parts from you, it's his responsibility to guarantee safe return to you.
Seems retarded to ship parts of value without any tracking ...
...shows your lack of integrity.- especially after the opening post specifically stated the part was scanned as delivered.
I'll never sell a part to you, since that is the way you about being a victim.
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