- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
some wiring on the back of the alternator wasnt stock......and a line under the intake....is all ive heard....
i've got to figure out how to hide my rocket booster for next year
TSA Class GSCA Bowling Green 2009
- Thread starter Dennis Kirban
- Start date
some wiring on the back of the alternator wasnt stock......and a line under the intake....is all ive heard....
i've got to figure out how to hide my rocket booster for next year
Thumper
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Thanks K, gold it was.
I will promise you it does not come easy to be show and race ready. My wife and I have countless hours detailing the car. It is rewarding enough just to place in the show.
I was at Kirbans tent when the showdown took place, I think it will stay with the people who were in the tent, I would also hope people respect that and leave that matter lay....
If people want to know what the issues were with a car, please contact the cars owner. This way it does not start flames. They know what was visually seen.
Thanks
Bill
I will promise you it does not come easy to be show and race ready. My wife and I have countless hours detailing the car. It is rewarding enough just to place in the show.
I was at Kirbans tent when the showdown took place, I think it will stay with the people who were in the tent, I would also hope people respect that and leave that matter lay....
If people want to know what the issues were with a car, please contact the cars owner. This way it does not start flames. They know what was visually seen.
Thanks
Bill
Yes I did see your pass, the problems with your car had nothing to do with it's speed. I was not around for the antifreeze discussion, I think that is a little crazy. Question for you, how do you knowthe drain plug is stock? Did you buy the car new???????
Thanks, Kip
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
wow.. now thats rare!! any pics of this "option" ???
i can answer both at once.....im the forth owner of the car....
1) dept of energy
2)university of Tenn
3)Race Lutz
4)me
Michigan Automotive Research did the conversion on all DOE cars of those years.check the link on my sig for more info on my car if anyone has any interest.the tranny fluid drain has always been there.....no one i know can weld that good.
I have documents where the car was setup for maintenance every time they(DOE) wanted....i have plenty of fluid analysis papers/charts where they were looking for wash down of methanol,metals,wear,etc .why they felt they even had to test the tranny so often i cannot answer......maybe they thought the meth added so much power they were looking for wear??? i cant answer that.
i had all the proof/documentation with me,I offered it up, no one was interested....
i still don't see why the other guy or anyone couldn't have one,even if it wasn't original like mine.cannot see it unless your on the ground,and isn't a speed issue that I'm aware of.
under hood is where originality should be the focal point IMHO...
Kip i remember where you asked about a coolant drain port....i can see where that would stick out....
I'm not a lier or a cheater....im trying to race TSA fair and square.everyone knows if they had my car they would run it without question....so am I.because of the fuel sytem and hows its setup,this has been the hardest TR for me to tune ever.just funny how my car was reacted to........
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
Good luck is all I can say Gary!
thanks bro, im going to need it........
Exactly, take 1 car at a time under a tent out of the hot blazing sun, Have RC and selected other folks spend 10 min. looking over each car in an area that is free of distractions so that RC and each racer gets his full attention while in the tech area. Its very simple guys....
BTW, we may have TSA in November in Reynolds, GA too. So dont think this year as a waste. You would have roughly 5 months from now to be considered legal. Time will tell however. Give RC a chance to work some things out that he DEFINATELY learned as RRA and life will be good!!
i can answer both at once.....im the forth owner of the car....
1) dept of energy
2)university of Tenn
3)Race Lutz
4)me
Michigan Automotive Research did the conversion on all DOE cars of those years.check the link on my sig for more info on my car if anyone has any interest.the tranny fluid drain has always been there.....no one i know can weld that good.
I have documents where the car was setup for maintenance every time they(DOE) wanted....i have plenty of fluid analysis papers/charts where they were looking for wash down of methanol,metals,wear,etc .why they felt they even had to test the tranny so often i cannot answer......maybe they thought the meth added so much power they were looking for wear??? i cant answer that.
i had all the proof/documentation with me,I offered it up, no one was interested....
i still don't see why the other guy or anyone couldn't have one,even if it wasn't original like mine.cannot see it unless your on the ground,and isn't a speed issue that I'm aware of.
under hood is where originality should be the focal point IMHO...
Kip i remember where you asked about a coolant drain port....i can see where that would stick out....
I'm not a lier or a cheater....im trying to race TSA fair and square.everyone knows if they had my car they would run it without question....so am I.because of the fuel sytem and hows its setup,this has been the hardest TR for me to tune ever.just funny how my car was reacted to........
I asked the question about the coolant flush port just so the tech would go smoother and it would not be an issue, same goes for the drain plug in the tranny. We had to change them on one of the cars competing. More people should have asked questions and resolved the issues ahead of time. Richard told me before the Nats that I was the only guy who was being open about what we were doing. Others were trying to keep everything hush hush.
For the record I do not think you are a liar or a cheat. You come accross as a good guy in person. With some changes to you car you might be able to run TSA, that would be up to Richard of course. My only problem was with the three year old slur aimed at someone.
Question for you, how did Michigan Automotive Research aquire the test cars?
See ya,Kip
Thumper
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
[QUOTE from garyk1970] the tranny fluid drain has always been there.....no one i know can weld that good.
I have documents where the car was setup for maintenance every time they(DOE) wanted....i had all the proof/documentation with me,I offered it up, no one was interested....
i still don't see why the other guy or anyone couldn't have one,even if it wasn't original like mine.cannot see it unless your on the ground,and isn't a speed issue that I'm aware of.
(1) TSA is just not a speed class, it is an original appearing class to.
(2) If you look into the section (Questions for Richard by Kip) on the main page of TSA, a plug in the pan is clearly addressed. RC even stated that it is a visual isuue and has nothing to do with performance, we all know that. RC even posted (why give it a chance to be a issue) chances have it you where the only car with one, and it was seen.
[QUOTE from garyk1970] under hood is where originality should be the focal point IMHO...
(3) One thing with TSA is it must VISUALLY appear stock under the hood,interior,exterior or any place that can be seen.
(4) TSA is Turbo Stock Appearing. In the begining of the rules it reads (if we can see it and it's not how the car was delivered it is NOT allowed).
Gary's car is very difficult to address as nobody was prepared for a car that runs on methanol.
Is it fair to let one car have meth injection and not the others???
We all get another chance to fit the rules, lets all just be better prepared for peer tech.
(sgrim) how hard do we need to twist that arm? Convert back to stock appearing and join us.
Thanks
Bill
I have documents where the car was setup for maintenance every time they(DOE) wanted....i had all the proof/documentation with me,I offered it up, no one was interested....
i still don't see why the other guy or anyone couldn't have one,even if it wasn't original like mine.cannot see it unless your on the ground,and isn't a speed issue that I'm aware of.
(1) TSA is just not a speed class, it is an original appearing class to.
(2) If you look into the section (Questions for Richard by Kip) on the main page of TSA, a plug in the pan is clearly addressed. RC even stated that it is a visual isuue and has nothing to do with performance, we all know that. RC even posted (why give it a chance to be a issue) chances have it you where the only car with one, and it was seen.
[QUOTE from garyk1970] under hood is where originality should be the focal point IMHO...
(3) One thing with TSA is it must VISUALLY appear stock under the hood,interior,exterior or any place that can be seen.
(4) TSA is Turbo Stock Appearing. In the begining of the rules it reads (if we can see it and it's not how the car was delivered it is NOT allowed).
Gary's car is very difficult to address as nobody was prepared for a car that runs on methanol.
Is it fair to let one car have meth injection and not the others???
We all get another chance to fit the rules, lets all just be better prepared for peer tech.
(sgrim) how hard do we need to twist that arm? Convert back to stock appearing and join us.
Thanks
Bill
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2005
thanks Kip,i believe we (Rico) may have bought a small part from you sat too....i take back the three year old slur,I wasn't prepared for the tech session...no one's fault but my own.....everyone should not wear the same shirts when opposing someones car......understand how it could seem as being teamed up against? water under the bridge....
DOE ordered the cars from Gm ( my car has a feet code on the sid label).Gm shipped the cars strait to Detroit for the test packages.when the mods were done,shipped to the owner; DOE in Tenn....10 cars in total, 5 converted,5 gas so the DOE could compare MPG's,maintience,repars,wear,drivablity,etc between the different set of cars...
(1) TSA is just not a speed class, it is an original appearing class to.
(2) If you look into the section (Questions for Richard by Kip) on the main page of TSA, a plug in the pan is clearly addressed. RC even stated that it is a visual isuue and has nothing to do with performance, we all know that. RC even posted (why give it a chance to be a issue) chances have it you where the only car with one, and it was seen.
[QUOTE from garyk1970] under hood is where originality should be the focal point IMHO...
(3) One thing with TSA is it must VISUALLY appear stock under the hood,interior,exterior or any place that can be seen.
(4) TSA is Turbo Stock Appearing. In the begining of the rules it reads (if we can see it and it's not how the car was delivered it is NOT allowed).
Gary's car is very difficult to address as nobody was prepared for a car that runs on methanol.
Is it fair to let one car have meth injection and not the others???
We all get another chance to fit the rules, lets all just be better prepared for peer tech.
(sgrim) how hard do we need to twist that arm? Convert back to stock appearing and join us.
Thanks
Bill[/QUOTE]
the trans drain plug is original to this car as explained earlier.
my car was running e85,my car has not ran methanol since it has been in private hands ....Richard informed me to be legal, i had to run an alternate fuel........i would prefer to run gasoline anyway....
racing or not next year,my car will be better next year...i really enjoyed the concouse show ( i did two interviews,one tv,one written) and now i have some ideas on how to make the car better and more original.
very nice Gn BTW......
Gary
Thumper
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2001
Thanks Gary,
I was not the one leading the conversation on fuel, but I was under the impression you were running meth. I have recently learned you openly said during tech you had e85 in it. I guess it is now in RC's hands.
I'm glad you got your interviews, mine were messed up due to rain and they never got back around to me.
Clint,
How about TSA at the BPG in OH. Larger crowd should be better for car count, more competition possibly?
Thanks
Bill
I was not the one leading the conversation on fuel, but I was under the impression you were running meth. I have recently learned you openly said during tech you had e85 in it. I guess it is now in RC's hands.
I'm glad you got your interviews, mine were messed up due to rain and they never got back around to me.
Clint,
How about TSA at the BPG in OH. Larger crowd should be better for car count, more competition possibly?
Thanks
Bill
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
This issue on Gary's car has to be addressed at some point seeing it was like that from the factory and the class rules NEVER specified anything other than the BASIC factory car, After all it is FACTORY as it came like that.. Sure you take the silly minor stuff off that didn't come stock on it and he should be all set!
Everyone should understand this: GM made these for methanol testing right? Whats the problem?
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with the drain plug in a different spot SO WHAT! Then it's in a different spot on Gary's.. Bottom line here is - Thats how it came from the factory!!!
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with dual in-tank pumps SO WHAT! It came like that!!
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with anything else it shouldn't matter just for the simple fact that IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY LIKE THAT!!
The TSA RULES NEVER said that any other car outside the basic TR wasn't allowed ( Looks like people overlooked the possibility of Factory Methanol cars competing)!! The man even said he had ALL the DOCUMENTATION and nobody cared to even look at it. Why not sit back and try to come up with a solution for EVERYONE and help another TB owner/member into a class so he can compete and enjoy something? instead of just trying to get him pushed out of a class and get a bitter taste from this whole thing...
I personally thought it was going to be hard to disguise the mods done to these things to get them into the 10's and be 100% FACTORY / Stock "APPEARING". I was wrong........... Looks like the hardest part might be getting through Tech!!!
Scot W.
Everyone should understand this: GM made these for methanol testing right? Whats the problem?
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with the drain plug in a different spot SO WHAT! Then it's in a different spot on Gary's.. Bottom line here is - Thats how it came from the factory!!!
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with dual in-tank pumps SO WHAT! It came like that!!
If GM built the car FROM THE FACTORY with anything else it shouldn't matter just for the simple fact that IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY LIKE THAT!!
The TSA RULES NEVER said that any other car outside the basic TR wasn't allowed ( Looks like people overlooked the possibility of Factory Methanol cars competing)!! The man even said he had ALL the DOCUMENTATION and nobody cared to even look at it. Why not sit back and try to come up with a solution for EVERYONE and help another TB owner/member into a class so he can compete and enjoy something? instead of just trying to get him pushed out of a class and get a bitter taste from this whole thing...
I personally thought it was going to be hard to disguise the mods done to these things to get them into the 10's and be 100% FACTORY / Stock "APPEARING". I was wrong........... Looks like the hardest part might be getting through Tech!!!
Scot W.
You would need to PM him but being so close to the actual date I wouldn't know. Anything is possible. PM RC and see what we says
Clint, the Columbus race (BPG) is July 31-August 2. I would think that is plenty of time to organize something. Short of paint I think I could build a car in that amount of time.
I am scared you would have a low car count at Reynolds being that most of the guys at the Nats that were going to run TSA were from KY, OH, IN and WI.
See ya, Kip
my only imput is that stock appearing is stock appearing. as far as the "meth" car is their any proof of the mods FROM GM ??? I have had a lot of Buicks (NEW and used) and did as a business for 20 years.. NEVER had a drain plug in a tranny pan.. I know this is picky BUT stock is stock oh..yes I was thinking of doin a car for this class.. Wife was lookin at a 38k car to have some fun with Please don't say NO one can weld nice
oh..yes I was thinking of doin a car for this class.. Wife was lookin at a 38k car to have some fun with Please don't say NO one can weld nice
scot w.
GNSperformance.com
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
YEAH! He already mentioned had the documentation with him for ANYONE to look at!
But the One thing you didn't have was a factory GM Methanol test car!! :biggrin:
BOTTOM LINE, THE CAR CAME THAT WAY PERIOD!!! Stock is Stock right? meaning Not modifyied by the owner or anyone outside of GM? WELL, There ya have it!!
(Pretty much in the same boat as the GNX (wait, the GNX mods were not done by GM!!
) but the 5 Meth cars that were built never made it to be sold to the public simply due to saftey reasons with the use of Methanol.) Sorry to say but IT IS WHAT IT IS...
Gary, Trans pans are EASY to change out if need be!!
Scot W.
YEAH! He already mentioned had the documentation with him for ANYONE to look at!
But the One thing you didn't have was a factory GM Methanol test car!! :biggrin:
BOTTOM LINE, THE CAR CAME THAT WAY PERIOD!!! Stock is Stock right? meaning Not modifyied by the owner or anyone outside of GM? WELL, There ya have it!!
(Pretty much in the same boat as the GNX (wait, the GNX mods were not done by GM!!
Sorry to say but IT IS WHAT IT IS...
Gary, Trans pans are EASY to change out if need be!!
Scot W.
1st off dude you are taking this WAY to serious for a guy that wasn't involved.
2nd off that's right a pan IS easy to change.
And I'd just like to say that RC is the one making all this happen and if he says a car is out then it's out and I'm quite sure there is nothing anyone can do about it. I think the same goes for if he says it's in.
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