TSM legal GN makes 670rwhp on E85.

[86brick]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl32zw7uTxM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[John Wilde]

I will comment, Dave's stuff is always nice.
I wish he could mellow out and enjoy the community
while it is still around. Another comment I don't think
this is TSM Legal because of the E85:

TSM 2011 Rules
Engine Management & Fuel System
• Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

 

[86brick]

I will comment, Dave's stuff is always nice.
I wish he could mellow out and enjoy the community
while it is still around. Another comment I don't think
this is TSM Legal because of the E85:

TSM 2011 Rules
Engine Management & Fuel System
• Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

I agree on both accounts John, honestly it would be cool to see them have another class to allow racers to run E85.

 

[S2V6RACER]

We determined the rules are not specific enough about ethanol because pump gas has ethanol in it and considered "gasoline" so ethanol based fuels are also legal since they contain gasoline. We determined the intent of the rule listed above is not to allow additives, alcohol, or nitrous to be injected, I.E. External injection.

There is no performance advantage for ethanol based fuels over C,Q, or VP import which are currently legal to run in the class and illegal to run on the street.

 

[John Wilde]

We determined the rules are not specific enough about ethanol because pump gas has ethanol in it and considered "gasoline" so ethanol based fuels are also legal since they contain gasoline. We determined the intent of the rule listed above is not to allow additives, alcohol, or nitrous to be injected, I.E. External injection.

There is no performance advantage for ethanol based fuels over C,Q, or VP import which are currently legal to run in the class and illegal to run on the street.

Ted,

There needs to be clarity in the rules for sure.
I think there is grey area that could be interpreted either way.
For the record, I think E85 should be allowed, but since I don't
compete or sponsor any class so my opinion is just that...

What mods to the fuel system did you end up making?

 

[Kip]

Ted,

There needs to be clarity in the rules for sure.
I think there is grey area that could be interpreted either way.
For the record, I think E85 should be allowed, but since I don't
compete or sponsor any class so my opinion is just that...

John, you are correct a ruling needs to be made and stood by. I say let it in, heck THS has already for 3 years.

See ya, Kip

 

[86brick]

I also would think allowing E85 might help get the car count up in TSM. They might want to consider looking at that for next years rules.

 

[HOT ROD-GN]

I will comment, Dave's stuff is always nice.
I wish he could mellow out and enjoy the community
while it is still around. Another comment I don't think
this is TSM Legal because of the E85:

TSM 2011 Rules
Engine Management & Fuel System
• Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

x2
I think dave car is the nices TSM car period... is a beautiful car all around ..
the MAN has TALENT can't take that away from him..

 

[V6RACER]

I will comment, Dave's stuff is always nice.
I wish he could mellow out and enjoy the community
while it is still around. Another comment I don't think
this is TSM Legal because of the E85:

TSM 2011 Rules
Engine Management & Fuel System
• Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed.

I agree on both accounts John, honestly it would be cool to see them have another class to allow racers to run E85.

We determined the rules are not specific enough about ethanol because pump gas has ethanol in it and considered "gasoline" so ethanol based fuels are also legal since they contain gasoline. We determined the intent of the rule listed above is not to allow additives, alcohol, or nitrous to be injected, I.E. External injection.

There is no performance advantage for ethanol based fuels over C,Q, or VP import which are currently legal to run in the class and illegal to run on the street.

Ted,

There needs to be clarity in the rules for sure.
I think there is grey area that could be interpreted either way.
For the record, I think E85 should be allowed, but since I don't
compete or sponsor any class so my opinion is just that...

What mods to the fuel system did you end up making?

John, you are correct a ruling needs to be made and stood by. I say let it in, heck THS has already for 3 years.

See ya, Kip

I also would think allowing E85 might help get the car count up in TSM. They might want to consider looking at that for next years rules.

E85 is gasoline right?

The rule states gasoline as a legal fuel. E85 is sold as gasoline at the pumps. The rule is to limit someone from showing up with a pure alcohol fuel system, alcohol injection, and/or nitromethane injection etc etc...

Running E85 is not a reason not to participate in TSM, so bring it to the races.

Having another class for E85 will only decrease participation in the already abundant classes in the Buick world.

 

[V6RACER]

FYI, no one has ever checked fuel at a TSM event that I'm aware of.

 

[SGRIM]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl32zw7uTxM[/YOUTUBE]

What weight? Is that 8 sec weight?:biggrin:

 

[John Wilde]

What weight? Is that 8 sec weight?:biggrin:

Boss,

That is almost signature worthy.

 

[John Wilde]

Jason, thanks for the clarification!

 

[JOHNDEEREGN]

What weight? Is that 8 sec weight?:biggrin:

Wonder if it has an 8 sec 109 block in the car?

 

[quickt]

I would like to see Dave bring the car back to a TSM race. Don set the bar high and Jasons car is running like a well oiled machine. Would be neat to see some good old fashion battle in TSM again. Some of the best racing I have ever seen was when Don, Jason, Steve H., Phil, Kerney were battling for that TSM crown.

 

[bison]

As long as its determined that racers wouldnt attempt to use E98 or other blends of E85 which could give an advantage over E85 blended and sold at "gas" pumps. Maybe that should be the rule fuel cells and tanks are pumped and someone brings a couple 55gallon barrels to supply fuel for everyone racing who should be required to pump out there fuel and fill with only the "E85" out of the 55 gallon drums. If there was no rule as to which E85 is run i know what id be starting with and mixing and it sure as hell wouldnt be a mystery fuel out of a supposed "E85" gas station pump. You could be sure id be running E85 just not a mystery pump blend of it but rather a blend that was definitely 85% ethanol and whatever other "gas" i found suitable for this use. You could also be sure the engine i was using would have been built around using this blend.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Bison, we have a real time display for the ethanol content in the fuel feeding back from the flexfuel sensor and if we didn't have that the BigStuff3 ECU could tell the ethanol content in real time as well. Policing this fuel would be very easy. You bring up a good point about E98 as well that was why I mentioned some clarification on limits are needed.

 

[V6RACER]

I guess people just can't do it the old fashion way anymore..

 

[HighPSI]

Bison, we have a real time display for the ethanol content in the fuel feeding back from the flexfuel sensor and if we didn't have that the BigStuff3 ECU could tell the ethanol content in real time as well. Policing this fuel would be very easy. You bring up a good point about E98 as well that was why I mentioned some clarification on limits are needed.

The BS3 & XFI can display the ethanol content if the racer has a flex fuel sensor. If they don't, it could be very easy to run a diferent blend other than E-85. Without the flex fuel sensor, or a stock ECU, this could become very hard to police.

 

[SGRIM]

I guess people just can't do it the old fashion way anymore..

Yeah, HONESTLY...