What intercooler are you running and for what reasons have you made this selection?

[usetaboost]

So is this new design going to be a bolt in or race car fit? I assume the pipes are going to go in from the center on one side and out the center on the other side?

 

[TURBOELKY]

I ended up buying an original cottons performance FMIC recently. Luckily it's an original, made with turbonetics core and elbows. It's about as big as the front of the car. Over kill for my setup?....probably

To answer the original question: I bought it because my friend had the original prototype from cotton and it worked excellent in the stage car. It was also reasonably priced, and finally, I bought it because it was pretty and the pipes were sent out to polish. I have no actual data other than my car flys for what's in it, my single fan couldn't cool enough in the day time, and I like my turbo surge sound when I get off the throttle... now that's data!

 

[No disintegrations]

Is the design like the old ATR or Kenne Bell FM's better? They both seem to be vertical flow although I am sure core technology has come a ways from when those were offered.

He's going for a high flow design. Long skinny tubes flow poorly. The idea is to use shorter core tubes to have better flow. A fresh look at the problem.

 

[bison]

Is the design like the old ATR or Kenne Bell FM's better? They both seem to be vertical flow although I am sure core technology has come a ways from when those were offered.

From a flow standpoint they are. I don't have as much data as I'd like from various Intercoolers. No one really captured everything back in the day. If you asked them about hot boost or drive pressure in 1996 they'd probably look at you like you're some kind of dope


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[bison]

He's going for a high flow design. Long skinny tubes flow poorly. The idea is to use shorter core tubes to have better flow. A fresh look at the problem.

Also adding core cross section at the same time. Looking for minimal flow restriction and as good or better heat rejection


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[bison]

View attachment 293758 View attachment 293759 View attachment 293760 I ended up buying an original cottons performance FMIC recently. Luckily it's an original, made with turbonetics core and elbows. It's about as big as the front of the car. Over kill for my setup?....probably

To answer the original question: I bought it because my friend had the original prototype from cotton and it worked excellent in the stage car. It was also reasonably priced, and finally, I bought it because it was pretty and the pipes were sent out to polish. I have no actual data other than my car flys for what's in it, my single fan couldn't cool enough in the day time, and I like my turbo surge sound when I get off the throttle... now that's data!

Just looking at that I can tell you it will have serious pressure drop. Long pass, thin core = big pressure drop. Eyeballing it it appears like a 400cfm unit


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[TURBOELKY]

Just looking at that I can tell you it will have serious pressure drop. Long pass, thin core = big pressure drop. Eyeballing it it appears like a 400cfm unit


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I should have put it on the flow bench before I installed it. When I put the stroker engine in after the car goes through it's shake down, I'll flow it. Until then I can participate in dick measuring and say mine is bigger than theirs

And honestly, I'm really happy to have bought a USA made product. The car has great response so the combo seems to be working fine. I'm not much of a track racer, I enjoy more of the building, and the occasional mustang roast.

 

[TURBOELKY]

We installed this PTE front mount in a friends car. I believe the core was 4" or 5" thick. I would actually like to flow both his and mine to see a real comparison.

 

[bison]

View attachment 293778
We installed this PTE front mount in a friends car. I believe the core was 4" or 5" thick. I would actually like to flow both his and mine to see a real comparison.

It's 4.5" thick and flows more than most commercially available.


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[GBGN1]

I'm interested to see the new cooler also . Maybe it will out perform my 4.5 thick V1?

 

[turbobitt]

I'm interested to see the new cooler also . Maybe it will out perform my 4.5 thick V1?

Just for comparison we would estimate that V1 core to flow about 1100 CFM. Our single pass cast tank version will flow about 1500 CFM.
I'm estimating the V1 flow data based on what a similar sized Bell core would flow and assuming it will be in the ballpark.
AG.

 

[bison]

I'm interested to see the new cooler also . Maybe it will out perform my 4.5 thick V1?

Do you have the data on it? What are the core dimensions and pass?


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[TURBOELKY]

So the whole concept here has been achieving least amount of pressure drop, not so much cooling the charge? This thread has become long and drawn out. I'm a bit confused and trying to comprehend what's going on.

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Just looking at that I can tell you it will have serious pressure drop. Long pass, thin core = big pressure drop. Eyeballing it it appears like a 400cfm unit


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Brian wasn't there actual intercooler tests that included Cottons when it first came out... iirc Cottons did pretty good with regards to pressure drop - I thought it and one of Dequicks FMIC were at the top of the list for least amount of pressure drop across the core. I will have to try and dig up some numbers.


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[No disintegrations]

So the whole concept here has been achieving least amount of pressure drop, not so much cooling the charge? This thread has become long and drawn out. I'm a bit confused and trying to comprehend what's going on.

Yes, pressure drop. Long thin tubes cool nicely, but long thin tubes flow poorly. A thicker core helps flow and adds mass to cool. Best of both worlds is a thick core with short tubes. Space allowing.

 

[TURBOELKY]

Hmmm.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/


Area vs. Thickness
Wang continues, "The rule of thumb here is obvious-bigger is better. More surface area means more cooling power. However, a larger surface area is favored over a thicker core. A larger surface area provides more cooling face for the ambient air where a thicker core might be less effective. As the core gets thicker, the ambient air traveling through the core is heated by transfer and the farther through the core it travels the hotter it gets. By the time the ambient is at the back side of the unit, it's lost a good percentage of its cooling capacity. Beyond that, thick cores cause an ambient pressure drop, which means less air will make its way to the radiator causing overheating issues.

"When it comes to area, achieving the maximum height is more beneficial than widening the unit. The main reason for this is pressure drop is greater when the charge air has to travel through longer passage compared to a shorter passage. It should be noted that pressure drop through a longer-passage core can be compensated for, to a certain extent, via fin design."

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Cottons FMIC had 1.67 & 1.61 pressure drop across the core.


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[achalmersman]

Cottons FMIC had 1.67 & 1.61 pressure drop across the core.


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Under what conditions

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[bison]

Cottons FMIC had 1.67 & 1.61 pressure drop across the core.


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The drop is never linear. Post logs if you have them. Need approximate mass flow too


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[bison]

Hmmm.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0304-turp-intercooler/


Area vs. Thickness
Wang continues, "The rule of thumb here is obvious-bigger is better. More surface area means more cooling power. However, a larger surface area is favored over a thicker core. A larger surface area provides more cooling face for the ambient air where a thicker core might be less effective. As the core gets thicker, the ambient air traveling through the core is heated by transfer and the farther through the core it travels the hotter it gets. By the time the ambient is at the back side of the unit, it's lost a good percentage of its cooling capacity. Beyond that, thick cores cause an ambient pressure drop, which means less air will make its way to the radiator causing overheating issues.

"When it comes to area, achieving the maximum height is more beneficial than widening the unit. The main reason for this is pressure drop is greater when the charge air has to travel through longer passage compared to a shorter passage. It should be noted that pressure drop through a longer-passage core can be compensated for, to a certain extent, via fin design."

We already covered this. Real time cooling is minimal. Adding mass is the easiest way to increase cooling but adding to the pass reduces flow. Doubling the pass with no other change cuts flow in half. If pressure drop exceeds 1-2psi then it's too much. It's easy to reduce charge temps by making a more restrictive design. I've got data from two cars that dropped charge temp 40* by switching Intercoolers and didn't pick up any power. One actually slowed down. Unfortunately he didn't have the hot boost pressure. If charge temp is dropping and you aren't picking up power at a rate of about 1% per 10 degrees you are likely introducing a restriction somewhere. Weight should be a consideration also especially with air to air which is hanging off the front of the car.


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