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I proposed via PM to eliminate the wastegate dumping into DP rule.
XTSM - Extreme TSM
- Thread starter V6RACER
- Start date
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My $.02
Don't require wg to be plumbed in exhaust (ths doesn't even require it)
Don't require exhaust period (most heads up classes outside the buick world don't require exhaust on turbo cars.)
Tires. 325 Max radial, 10.5x29 Max slick (measured)
Light wieght parts. Require all glass windows. No fiberglass doors. The rest is open.
No change to turbo rules...use 3 bolt as a limiting factor.
Keep suspension rules the same.
Don't require wg to be plumbed in exhaust (ths doesn't even require it)
Don't require exhaust period (most heads up classes outside the buick world don't require exhaust on turbo cars.)
Tires. 325 Max radial, 10.5x29 Max slick (measured)
Light wieght parts. Require all glass windows. No fiberglass doors. The rest is open.
No change to turbo rules...use 3 bolt as a limiting factor.
Keep suspension rules the same.
My thoughts are:
Exhaust (MAYBE require the use of a muffler, but in xtreme racing shouldn't matter)
Wastegate plumbing (seems irrelivent, whats the advantage due to turbo limit)
Tire size (28x10.5, no "W's" or 295, possible 315 drag radial)
Fiberglass parts (Hood, fillers, bumpers, and decklid but not doors or fenders, must have full glass)
Exhaust (MAYBE require the use of a muffler, but in xtreme racing shouldn't matter)
Wastegate plumbing (seems irrelivent, whats the advantage due to turbo limit)
Tire size (28x10.5, no "W's" or 295, possible 315 drag radial)
Fiberglass parts (Hood, fillers, bumpers, and decklid but not doors or fenders, must have full glass)
FINALLY - this is a step in the right direction! Glad to see the other thread resulting in something positive.
Since everyone is giving opinions on rules.......
3100#s may be a stretch for some but it's a better alternative than making stage 2 cars have to add a ridiculous amount of weight. We want to have cars that can be competitive in events outside of the Buick community.
Keep the rules as simple as possible without adding a bunch of nit picky rules. The fewer rules the better. Let the TURBO, TIRES, and WEIGHT be the major dictators of the class like has already been stated.
This almost makes me wish I didn't have another car under construction. Heck, I still may bring something out if this ends up happening.
Now if ya'll will just allow twin turbo V8s................
:biggrin:
Since everyone is giving opinions on rules.......
3100#s may be a stretch for some but it's a better alternative than making stage 2 cars have to add a ridiculous amount of weight. We want to have cars that can be competitive in events outside of the Buick community.
Keep the rules as simple as possible without adding a bunch of nit picky rules. The fewer rules the better. Let the TURBO, TIRES, and WEIGHT be the major dictators of the class like has already been stated.
This almost makes me wish I didn't have another car under construction. Heck, I still may bring something out if this ends up happening.
Now if ya'll will just allow twin turbo V8s................
:biggrin:
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Tire sizes should stay the same. Guys are going fast on 275s. 295 is plenty big for DRs.
FINALLY - this is a step in the right direction!
Now if ya'll will just allow twin turbo V8s................
Dammit Will.. If you won the lottery you would complain about having to count the money!! LOL:biggrin:
I can't find a single thing to complain about with these changes. I'm more than willing to change to fit all the current rules with the addition of allowing the stage block and heads. I honestly never thought that would be considered even though they are probably not an advantage (maybe a detriment) with such a relatively small turbo. I think the weight might be a little high, but since no-one has tried out this combination yet, it's a good place to start. The big weight difference might also keep some of the fear of the stage parts from discouraging current 109 racers. Once it's determined how much of an advantage the new parts are, then the weight can be adjusted. I'm just happy that there is now a place to race without having to have a 25.X chassis and a motor on the ragged edge, but I can still put an 80mm turbo on run non buick events. And the car should still be fun to drive on the street from time to time.
Some quick 1/4 mile et to hp math says a 3650lb car needs 975 to 1025 hp to run 9.20-9.00. I think it will take some good tuning and a good combination to get that much from the 71hpq, but it's do-able. I bet the champion headed 109 cars can run 8.80's at their new weight. If 9.0-9.2 is the true et goal, I bet the 109 cars get weight added back if anything. I'm just happy to get the chance to try it.
Some quick 1/4 mile et to hp math says a 3650lb car needs 975 to 1025 hp to run 9.20-9.00. I think it will take some good tuning and a good combination to get that much from the 71hpq, but it's do-able. I bet the champion headed 109 cars can run 8.80's at their new weight. If 9.0-9.2 is the true et goal, I bet the 109 cars get weight added back if anything. I'm just happy to get the chance to try it.
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How much would a 4.1 S2 with 8 head bolt 8445 heads have to weigh?
III'S 87 GN
Active Member
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Considering he is trying to grow the class , I will take a shot and say no weight break.
III'S 87 GN
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Xcellent work
This really should help the events.
This really should help the events.
XXQUICK6XX
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Now if they would open up TSO like this to ladder bar cars and 4 link cars and big tire cars this could be interesting.
I agree with you Lonnie.
Here are what I think are more realistics weights:
3300- "8445" headed 109 (This allows current TSM racers in this cofiguration to drop 100lbs. A 300 lbs drop in one season is unrealistic and to expensive for most to
continue on this path.)
3450- Alum production style head 109 (Again 100 lbs drop from current rules. If the real goal is a 9.0 -9.2 range class this should get more their. Rember 2 cars have
already been in the 8s at 100 lbs heavier, what happens if you drop 250 lbs off those cars?)
3550- 3.8 Stage block any head (If someone wants to run stage 2 head the turbo willlimit them anyways)
3650- 4.1 Stage block/ TA block (On heads same reason as above. Reason for TA block being grouped with 4.1 stage block is otherwise they would have to prove
cid at every race and it is a weight advantage using a lighter weight block)
-100 lbs for any combo using a 67mm turbo.
Peace, Kip
I'll agree with Kip. Those are more realistic weights to start with and should be easily attainable for most combinations.
Also agree with Lonnie that there is no hp advantage to the on center vs off center stage blocks. I'm assuming Jason's reasoning is the fact that most TSO type setups are on-center and that would prevent a TSO car from simply changing turbos and dropping down to this class?
Also agree with Lonnie that there is no hp advantage to the on center vs off center stage blocks. I'm assuming Jason's reasoning is the fact that most TSO type setups are on-center and that would prevent a TSO car from simply changing turbos and dropping down to this class?
steve hughes
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I think Kip's weight breaks are a little more realistic. I don't see why an on center should be hit with a 100 pounds but you got to start somewhere.
Jason i sent you a pm with my cell # . Give me a call saturday. Thanks
Jason i sent you a pm with my cell # . Give me a call saturday. Thanks
I say if a man can get his car down to 3200 and below, so be it. No one really knows how far someone could take their car down to. This may allow the car to compete other events other than Buick only. There also should be more than a 200lb spread between aluminum 109 vs Stage.
Dusty Bradford
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Chad Henderson's Big Block Regal weighs 2800 with driver and still has factory power windows, 2 front seats, factory glass. Only fiberglass is hood and decklid.
The weights will depend on what the racers want to see in a class. A 3100# Regal won't look like the 3600# cars they used to look like under the hood. No back seat, no inner fenders under the hood, glass bumpers front and back, glass hood and decklid. It won't be cheap that's for sure.
The weights will depend on what the racers want to see in a class. A 3100# Regal won't look like the 3600# cars they used to look like under the hood. No back seat, no inner fenders under the hood, glass bumpers front and back, glass hood and decklid. It won't be cheap that's for sure.
