Alky for mid 10s car?

Originally posted by Turbo__Tim

Donnie Are you dropping out any fuel at wot running the de-natured? I am running the Translator+ and I know there is a way to have it programmed for that, for people running a lot of de-natured at WOT. I like the De-natured, and will be tunning my new combination for it. When I used it before, I was getting no 'transitional knock. How about you?

BTW the cold air intake works great! :)
Click to expand...

Tim, I haven't tried dropping the fuel at wot with the T+ yet, but I could stand to drop a little dabb out. With the dual nozzles I don't have to run the pump too high but at wot it's really pouring it in even set on 4.5-5. With my fp set at 43 static, I'm running 22psi and in 3rd O2's are in the 800-810 range. I like those numbers, nothing wrong with being on the safe side.

I have no transtional knock at all. The only time I saw anything was once on the kickdown and it was only .5*, nothing major in my book. I'm glad you like the cold air kit, the chrome really looks great, and works even better:D .

Donnie
 
Tim,
I guess the way your measuring the airflow is with a larger MAF.Ours max's out at 255.

My car also runs a tad rich on the denatured in the 800-810 range and dropping FP only yields me knock..so trimming the alky is my only problem in trying to lean out the motor.

But my injectors are at 120 percent so I kinda answered my own question.

Great thread to say the least..
 
Razor, the Maf numbers are read from a scanmaster, using the Translator+ and extender chip. The chip 'halves' the MAF numbers, allowing us guys wigh performance heads and cams to measure air flow beyond 255 GPS. Thus 150 gps read = 300 gps.

I wore a cam lobe once, and the drop in air flow cued me to the problem, so it has it's uses. Also (and I am still learning) the increase in air flow is where I go from 250 to 300 gps, from 10 to 15 psi., respectively. That's 10 gps (grams per second) increase for each pound of boost pressure. I believe that I will max out at 340ish at 18-19 psi. I'm guessing that this will be all the further I will be able to go with pump gas, and alchy. I'll probabbly scale third gear back to 15 psi, to avoid detonation at that point.

Btw the rule of thumb that each pound of increase in boost yeilds 10-12 hosrepower seems to hold up here, as I'm told to expect 75 hp more with the heads, and rockers, and in going from stock air flow levels at 10 psi, add 7-8 psi, and you are at 17-18 psi. There is a formula to calculate HP based on airflow, as well but I don't know what it is. I still have a lot to learn...;)

Donnie the double nozzle should allow you so substitute some de-natured for the gas. you won't be able to take out a lot of gas, of course, but some. I'm thinking of the dual nozzel to do just that. You will probabbly be trying this before I do, so please post your results? Thanks...

Oh yes, the chrome pipe does add 10 horsepower. Kenne Bell told me so..:)
 
I'm trying!

Tim.... thanks for the kind words!! I'm planning on installing a Power Plate and tweaking the alky jets a little to see if I can squeeze anything else out. All times have been run on DR's. I'm planning on running a new Cotton-built motor this summer, but I'm sure I'll get to the track a few more times before that happens in May. I'll be sure to update with any advances......
You sure seem to have this down to a science! I need to invest in an EGT gauge soon.
 
The power plate is a great idea. Dyno has shown 25 increase in torque. If it works as well as the Hemco I have, you could see 2 more psi without knock.

I have a computech EGT, but don't go out and spend the money on it. The SMC gage is didgital with a recall button, and this is all you need. The recall is nice. You won't have to keep your eyes on it during the run. I wouldn be running high levels of power without one.

Donnie, I amended my above post to say what I meant. Regarding substituting Denatured for gas. I had it backwards in the original posting. Just wanted to be clear..:)
 
Hey Tim,thanks for explaining the translator deal.Sounds pretty neat...

And Yes to the egt guage..wouldnt fly without one :D
 
Tim, I hope to have some track numbers within the next few weeks. The local track opens March 16 for test and tune, and weather permitting, I'll be there. Looking forward to playing around with everything and getting the car dialed in.



Donnie
 
Would someone please explain how I went 110.21mph in the 1/4 at 16-17psi with nearly everything stock? I was runn around a 105 mix of pump and race gas and 26* of timing. The point is that the MAF numbers would drop to about 230 when I shifted and wouldnt break 255 till after 4800rpm. This throws any theories on calculating HP from airflow out the window. The timing is simply making more power with the same amount of fuel and air and getting a more complete burn.

Anyways, I am rambling now as this is a long running debate.
 
I can't explain it, but I am pretty happy for you! Your counterpart TTa89 ran a lot lower time than that, and everything stock. Well not everything, but close:)

For the mph, the E.T. seems out of wack, like you have one heck of a powerfull top end charge... It kinda makes sense since the tta's are much lighter than the t/r's. Also someone said that they were jealous of the tta's due to the fact their heads flow much better. I never knew they were that much better though!

Wow! :) I'd kill for that kind of mph! Should get pretty close this year, we shall see.

Since you were pegging the maf, it would be neat to see what kind of flow you are really getting.

The flow / horsepower is a real thing. I saw a guy post the numbers on it a couple of weeks back, using turbo dave's car, and flow numbers. He was pretty close, maybe 10 hp off on the hp required to put Dave's car to the times he has been getting.

Being I am on that flow jag, maybe I'll see if I can find the post.

Then you'll be sorry, woncha?!?! :) :)
 
MPH not out of whack at all.The truth is i've done that same time getting a 2.30 60 foot...So the 110mph on racegas is no fluke.

And as far as weight...the TR's are lighter.My TTA weighs 3550 and a buddy weighed his 87TR on the same scale and his was 3400.
 
Hmmmm, Interesting. Yeah, and I was wondering about the 60' time.
www.gnttype.ogg/techaarea.misc/lubrant.html

The mph= about 370 hp!

The e.t= 300 hp.

Now look at donnie short's time and e.t.

Mph= 330
e.t= 380 hp

Averate his hp, get 355 hp

Average you guys, and get about 335 hp

yet his mph is about 50 hp less than yours!

Aerodynamics? Worth 50 hp? And his e.t. is a half second faster
In this range of e.t's and speed, we are saying he should have 50 more horses than you do.

Take your hp, and subtract the 27 psi out of the 335 hp. Thats 10 hp for every pound of boost, times , say , 12= 120 extra hp from the extra boost. 335 - 120 = 225 hp. (to the rear wheels, remember.

Call it 235 horsies, and the chart says you should run a 14.39 quarter, at 95 mph. At 14 psi.

Is this what the car runs stock? I'll bet that is pretty close!

Conclusion, Aerodynamics, and light weight contribute to the top end charge.

You guys would be heartbreakers, in the second half of the race...:)
 
Tim..how bout this..last nite

60 1.947
330 5.302
1/8 7.995
mph 91.65
1000 10.312
1/4 12.263
mph 112.50

on Nittos and spinning.Track prep wasnt there.Dragsters were complaining.

stock pretty much everything..some slicks and 11.80's would have been mine :)

Julio
 
Originally posted by Turbo__Tim
Hmmmm, Interesting. Yeah, and I was wondering about the 60' time.
www.gnttype.ogg/techaarea.misc/lubrant.html

The mph= about 370 hp!

The e.t= 300 hp.

Now look at donnie short's time and e.t.

Mph= 330
e.t= 380 hp

Averate his hp, get 355 hp

Average you guys, and get about 335 hp

yet his mph is about 50 hp less than yours!

Aerodynamics? Worth 50 hp? And his e.t. is a half second faster
In this range of e.t's and speed, we are saying he should have 50 more horses than you do.

Take your hp, and subtract the 27 psi out of the 335 hp. Thats 10 hp for every pound of boost, times , say , 12= 120 extra hp from the extra boost. 335 - 120 = 225 hp. (to the rear wheels, remember.

Call it 235 horsies, and the chart says you should run a 14.39 quarter, at 95 mph. At 14 psi.

Is this what the car runs stock? I'll bet that is pretty close!

Conclusion, Aerodynamics, and light weight contribute to the top end charge.

You guys would be heartbreakers, in the second half of the race...:)
Click to expand...

A few things to keep in mind about my car:

1) Not sure of the cars weight, but I would guess 3500 lbs. Now I weigh in at 285 lbs making it close to 3800 lbs. So my car with me in it would out weigh most.

2) the best time posted in my sig, was on a 1.71 60' time. The same night I pulled a 1.67 and it resulted in a slower e.t 12.49 @104.xx. The slowest time had my fastest 1/8 et it was 7.840 at 85.

3) My combo at the time was 868 injectors, stock turbo and engine ( had new valve springs ) and was running a non lock Vigalanti converter which I think was a mismatch with the stock turbo and all the runs was on 19psi and 25* timing. The converter being a non lock is the reason my mph was down> the best time was a 12.47 and it was put the slicks on and go to the line with out any tuning at all and only got to make 3 runs total that night and I think there was a little more in the car although the mph wasn't there. Still not too shabby:D


Donnie ( sorry so long )
 
I know a couple of things now, that I didn't know before. Razor is out to make me jealous, and is succeeding! If there was an Olympic medal for gloating razor wound have a legetimate shot at the gold:) J/K razor, good job!

Another thing I know is that when Donnie gets his car tuned, along with his performance chrome intake, he is going to hand razor hie a$$! I wish I could be there to see it. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy...:)

Hey Donnie you will kick some serious butt with the new combo. The 1/8 time proves you have traction, and lots of power to that point. I'm sure that you know that you are just running out of power after that. Or were! The 51 will give you all the air you need, and there is no chance of running out of fuel with the 50's, so there is no excuse.

Please don't let me down, because razor is mean, and deserves to be humiliated. Don't feel bad about that, he needs it, it would be good for his characted development.

He shouldn't even be on this board, but we will keep him around until you prove that Buicks Rule!. Then he can go and harass the Ford dudes. they deserve him! :) (j/k razor)

BTW I realized that you guys are doing yourselves a great dis-service by reading my stupid stuff. Here is a link to the real thing. The real smart guys are kicking all of our butts ('cept Donnies', of course) and here is the reason why. I don't pretend to understand half of the things they are talking about, but I keep reading anyway, 'cause it makes me feel smart whenever they slip up and say something I actually understand. :)

http://turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19799&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
 
Ahhh Tim,you got me blushing :p

My car is stock turbo,stock injectors,stock IC,stock d5 converter,stock rear,Stock everthing cept valvesprings,FPR,stat,FP,shift kit,chip and an SMC alky kit.

I'll put this car into the 11's on 93 octane pump gas/ alky on all the stock stuff before months end..promise.

Dont even have a boost guage in the car cept for the stock one that gets pegged :D

Tune your cars till your 100 percent absolutely sure there is no more left...then make one mod at a time.And if it aint knocking...keep upping it.

Its good to be king :cool:
 
Tim, you are right, the car was running out of power past the 1/8th. Plus I feel I was getting too close to running out of injector( when really I was running out of turbo) to raise the boost past 20psi. My stock turbo had alot of miles and just wasn't enough to cart my big a$$ down the track. The PTE-52 should change that though:D


Donnie
 
Slim Fast would be a great addition to your combination Donnie. 3-4 inches off the waist ought to be worth a tenth in the quarter..:)

I hope razors' head isn't as big as it seems. A helmut to cover that would weigh an extra 25 pounds.

Buicks rule! :)
 
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