Best Converter

[Dusty Bradford]

Don, nitrous is fine if your just playing. We used it back in the day for street racing. You didn't have worry about someone leaving on you because you weren't ready. Since then, converters and knowledge have come a long way and besides that, nitrous is not allowed with turbo's in the majority of heads up classes. Import classes allow it because it's the only way to spool a large turbo with very small ci. I wouldn't call it cutting edge technology. I'd call it a crutch being limited to small ci. If the imports weren't allowed to use nitrous they would still be stuck without boost until 300 feet out, or slow et's.

In my racing class, ci is limited to 650ci. Why build a 302ci turbo motor to make 2000hp when you can build a 400ci? It makes no sense. A lot of guys over turbo their combination just to say I have XX size turbo on it. Nitrous is also a crutch used to make a combo work that is not optimized. If a guy has a 231ci with an 88mm on it and wants to shift at 6k, the converter is not the problem, it's the chosen combo.

The only thing making converter companies rich is people who pay 3k for a bolt together converter.

 

[S2V6RACER]

I second the Chance convertor. Dan at DLS sells them and his convertors are in some of the fastest Buicks out there.

 

[Alky V6]

Don, nitrous is fine if your just playing. We used it back in the day for street racing. You didn't have worry about someone leaving on you because you weren't ready. Since then, converters and knowledge have come a long way and besides that, nitrous is not allowed with turbo's in the majority of heads up classes. Import classes allow it because it's the only way to spool a large turbo with very small ci. I wouldn't call it cutting edge technology. I'd call it a crutch being limited to small ci. If the imports weren't allowed to use nitrous they would still be stuck without boost until 300 feet out, or slow et's.

In my racing class, ci is limited to 650ci. Why build a 302ci turbo motor to make 2000hp when you can build a 400ci? It makes no sense. A lot of guys over turbo their combination just to say I have XX size turbo on it. Nitrous is also a crutch used to make a combo work that is not optimized. If a guy has a 231ci with an 88mm on it and wants to shift at 6k, the converter is not the problem, it's the chosen combo.

The only thing making converter companies rich is people who pay 3k for a bolt together converter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and procedures. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. I just hope I'm showing that there is more than ONE way to skin a cat. Some are less tedious, less time consuming and less expensive than others.

As far as the expense of the N/C T/C, I'm able to inspect the internals for proper design, engineering and quality and I can change stall and perform inspections at anytime without depending on someone else being able to weld the thing back together straight. After I've PM'ed my T/C, I know it's right.

 

[odell4o8]

chance convertors

I second the Chance convertor. Dan at DLS sells them and his convertors are in some of the fastest Buicks out there.

ted. im not one of the fastest buicks out there. but i got my bolt together neil chance convertor from dan at DLS three years ago and never have had any trouble with it. is it better than coan or other brand? i have no ideal, i payed 2100.00 bucks for it. i dont think i wasted my money, good luck,

 

[Alky V6]

In the beginning bolt together torque converters were common place. There is more than one reason why OEMs went to welded units. The main one, I can guarantee you is it's cheaper to manufacture. Some of the other benefits is less weight and less chance of leaks over the life of a street car. In a race car situation where the majority of the time the T/C sees massive amounts of punishment, it would only make sense to have the T/C a bolt together unit. This allows the inspection of the unit possible with no limit to how many times it can be performed. Needle thrust washers will go bad. The higher the stall speed the sooner. I would rather have the choice to catch a wearing needle bearing before it causes catastrophic failure, usually trashing out the complete unit. Off season inspection is a snap with a bolt together. If you don't see the benefit of a bolt together, then you just don't understand how easily things can go wrong in a T/C.
With a weld together unit there is a register that locates the two shells so that the two pieces can be welded together with as little chance as possible of things going out of proper alignment during the welding process. Each time a weld together unit has to be cut open part of that register is cut away. With enough cuts (depends on how careful the technician is that is doing the cutting) that register is destroyed and new components are necessary.
I just prefer to do regular inspections of all my equipment to try and keep the long term expense of replacing complete T/Cs down.

Dusty, try telling the big nitrous consumers (multi-stagers) that nitrous is a toy.

 

[norbs]

Don, I understand that the bolt together is a great idea, but the questions remain on efficiency of your unit. EAch % of increased efficiency on the top equals more hp. You claim 8-10%, ptc owners have posted 3-4%. A 5% improvement at your hp level would be at least a few mph and a quicker et without a doubt. BTW PTC sells a bolt together unit also..

 

[Alky V6]

Don, I understand that the bolt together is a great idea, but the questions remain on efficiency of your unit. EAch % of increased efficiency on the top equals more hp. You claim 8-10%, ptc owners have posted 3-4%. A 5% improvement at your hp level would be at least a few mph and a quicker et without a doubt. BTW PTC sells a bolt together unit also..

I believe I reported 7 to 8%. And when I made that determination it was using guesstimate figures (unsure about tire growth). Anyway, when I get the car better dialed in, I promise I'll report an accurate slippage factor. Right now, working out my slippage factor is not at the top of the list.

Even when I was street racing back in high school and listened to a lot of fellow racers charge that people using nitrous were cheaters, I realized that everything history has provided man for the internal combustion engine was nothing more than a tuning tool. EVERYTHING. The individual just picks and chooses which tools to use. More times than not, coming to the same results.

 

[J-B Racing]

Nos

Past Power...Back in the 80's I ran this stuff on BBC and making quick $1000 street runs. 15 Years ago I tried it on my Buick. First Squirt= POP The Gasket.
Today I thought about trying it out with the HG Technology far better than 15 years back. May never try it though.
Don, your killing me with your NOS...
Do you think you can make a full pass on this stuff?

 

[chris718]

joe if the engine is built with the right parts you can make a full pass on spray,people do it all the time.job spetter sr of turbo people was using nitrous in the late 80s on grand nationals and they were very fast and reliable.i remember a gnx from red hook brooklyn that was running 10.50s on an unopened motor with bolt ons.this was in 1993.there are alot of toyota supra guys around the city here running 9s with turbo and n20 combinations and these cars leave hard and spool instantly.also works good on some 13b corrolas ive seen as well.i had a low 10 second onte carlo ss in the mid 90s that was destroyed by a 13b corrola with turbo and n20.you need to understand that an engine gains rpm by the increased combustion forces initiated when more air and or fuel enters the combustion chamber which results in a more serious explosion to rotate the crankshaft.the engine can only rotate at a specific rpm controlled by the amount of air and fuel entering the combustrion chamber and the resulting energy release from this process.what happens to the engine when a vaccuum line is pulled off?it gains rpm.the n20 injection produces exaggerated results and combined with the appropriate amount of fuel to extra oxygen it releases ,the more violent the explosion process that rotates the crankshaft will be,thus the faster the engine can gain rpm and the more power it will make in the process.think of cutting torch that is lit up and what happens when you squeeze the lever when it adds oxygen .

 

[Alky V6]

Good examples Chris. Those Supra fellows are kicking ars. I plan on possibly trying a full run pass with the nitrous, if my calculated cylinder pressures don't go beyond the limit I've set for it. I may use a controller to pw the nitrous solenoids to a lower HP level than what I use for launch. Probably turning off the nitrous all together as the engine passes through peak torque. I have a lot more research to do on that subject.

 

[c&cgn]

I won't pretend that I'm a tranny or conveter expert.....

But just for fun, here's some info on a Real Art Carr 19930 and PTC 9.5" n/l from Dusty:

AC 9" = 6250 rpm @ 129.85mph

PTC = 5650 @ 129.72 mph

The Art Carr was repeated several times and was just too loose (and it was as tight as it can go as per Art himself) (40* pump vane angle)

I only have 2 passes on the PTC, both were today. It was 5650 thru the traps on both passes, @ 129+ and only 5650 rpm.

Based on the TCI calculator, the AC is 17% slippage and the PTC is 6%......that is quite a difference...

 

[bison]

I won't pretend that I'm a tranny or conveter expert.....

But just for fun, here's some info on a Real Art Carr 19930 and PTC 9.5" n/l from Dusty:

AC 9" = 6250 rpm @ 129.85mph

PTC = 5650 @ 129.72 mph

The Art Carr was repeated several times and was just too loose (and it was as tight as it can go as per Art himself) (40* pump vane angle)

I only have 2 passes on the PTC, both were today. It was 5650 thru the traps on both passes, @ 129+ and only 5650 rpm.

Based on the TCI calculator, the AC is 17% slippage and the PTC is 6%......that is quite a difference...

Sounds just like the AC i had in my blue car. I was hitting 6200 at 130 mph. It had a high slip % on the dyno also. I wish i had a PTC in that combo.

 

[S2V6RACER]

I won't pretend that I'm a tranny or conveter expert.....

But just for fun, here's some info on a Real Art Carr 19930 and PTC 9.5" n/l from Dusty:

AC 9" = 6250 rpm @ 129.85mph

PTC = 5650 @ 129.72 mph

The Art Carr was repeated several times and was just too loose (and it was as tight as it can go as per Art himself) (40* pump vane angle)

I only have 2 passes on the PTC, both were today. It was 5650 thru the traps on both passes, @ 129+ and only 5650 rpm.

Based on the TCI calculator, the AC is 17% slippage and the PTC is 6%......that is quite a difference...

Just a question, why did the car slow down with the PTC?

What were the E.T.'s?

Sounds like that PTC is really coupling up for you.

 

[chris718]

based on the data presented and from what i have been seeing and hearing it is evident that ptc understands how to build a converter.this is very difficult with turbocharged applications,and most places need at least 1 restall to get it right.i use protorque and they are very efficient as well.ProTorque.com

 

[top gun]

I second the Chance convertor. Dan at DLS sells them and his convertors are in some of the fastest Buicks out there.

X2 Dan hit my Neil Chance converter stall first time out. No problem with spool up on a pro tree yet couples up to throw down a big 147 mph in TSM trim

 

[J-B Racing]

Ati

Thi is my other car 1967 BBC Lemans with a 8" ATI 5000 Stall. I have in the car since 1990 and still a waepon...:smile:

 

[c&cgn]

Just a question, why did the car slow down with the PTC?

What were the E.T.'s?

Sounds like that PTC is really coupling up for you.

The A/C unit was last year. The PTC is the first run this year, plus I have a new engine management and I haven't had any tuning time on it yet.

ET's for both the A/C and PTC were 10.4's, and 60' times for both were 1.46.

Also, the tranny is only shifting @ 5100 rpm so I am not even in my powerband yet. I need to tweak the govenor to get the shift rpm up into the 5700 -5800 range which is where I was shifting with the A/C.

There's lots of power left with this combo, so I'm interested to see what it can do with this converter.

 

[Alky V6]

I won't pretend that I'm a tranny or conveter expert.....

But just for fun, here's some info on a Real Art Carr 19930 and PTC 9.5" n/l from Dusty:

AC 9" = 6250 rpm @ 129.85mph

PTC = 5650 @ 129.72 mph

The Art Carr was repeated several times and was just too loose (and it was as tight as it can go as per Art himself) (40* pump vane angle)

I only have 2 passes on the PTC, both were today. It was 5650 thru the traps on both passes, @ 129+ and only 5650 rpm.

Based on the TCI calculator, the AC is 17% slippage and the PTC is 6%......that is quite a difference...

What is the tire growth percentage variable that you're using in your T/C slippage calculation?

You need to understand that if your calculator does not include a tire growth percentage variable, you will not get a true T/C slippage answer. It will be fine for comparing one T/C to the next if using the same calculator, but if a person is comparing an answer where tire growth percentage was used to another where it was not used, you will not have a true comparison. An answer where tire growth was not taken into consideration will be artificially low.

 

[WSLN 6]

What part number is that converter Clayton? I will be shopping for a new one for my car soon enough. What rpm do you see at 60mph or so? I don't want to give up the lockup too badly but....

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Dusty, try telling the big nitrous consumers (multi-stagers) that nitrous is a toy.

Don, this was in reference to using it with turbocharging when it isn't required. A proper set-up will not need it. If someone needs to spool a 98mm with a 274ci...nitrous would work great. However if your limited to 1 power adder and need a 98mm to compete..you need a V8 as well. Like I said, I'm not against using it. Back before converters were figured out, no big injectors were being used. One friend locally used a single fogger nozzle in the up pipe with the fuel jet much bigger than suggested. This particular car had a TA-49, stock intercooler, 42# injectors and ran 6.70's back when 7.40's was fast. It was unbeatable on the street.

If someone builds a car with no intent of class racing, your not limited to anything, you can do as you please. Most heads up classes do not allow N20 along with turbocharging so you have to put together a working combo and not rely on nitrous to make it perform.