Best Converter

[gnxtc2]

This is Billy T's convertor,I had it freshened and sent it out to Fiscus
I just talked to Natalie and she said they would be putting it in tomorrow and shooting for running the car thursday.

There are more airfare miles on this converter than driven miles on it.:tongue:

I am also curious on seeing what the converter does in Dave's car.

Hey Dusty, just send me out another converter. The converter that is floating around, could be used a Buick community converter and your test mule

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[Alky V6]

Racers in heads up classes use all tools available to them. 2-step, 3-step, timing and a/f adjustments...to get a decent spool. It's not unusual to see Outlaw 10.5 cars capable of 3000hp now with twins. There are a couple reasons the big power guys made the switch to big blocks. The first was reliability but the other benefit is to help the car build boost and compete with 870ci nitrous motors. It's pretty much impossible to make a converter to spool twin 91's and be able to transfer the power when limited to 450 or less inches. That's another example of building an entire combo that will work together to meet your goals.

So true Dusty. The problem I have with class racing is, when the rules are changed, it usually will mean a big expense for the turbo racer. I just don't have the resources for that kind of racing.

 

[norbs]

If shipping to and from Canada was not such a hassle, I would send you my ptc converter. Its easy to ship there but coming back they want to tax you an everything and alot of bs border fees.

 

[Otto J]

I can all but assure you Otto won't put anything where his mouth is.

Not exactly sure what you point is here,I am not a convertor maker or dealer.
So why would i pay to send Don a convertor?

So what exactly is your point in your statement ?

 

[Alky V6]

What version 76?? What rpm range do you run the motor in?

Don't you run the car on alky or something as well? There is a lot to spoolup just in the tune up as well. Compression, timing, a/f all play a major role when you get down to sorting out a tricky converter situation.

224 and an 80mm is no doubt difficult.

The present turbo is the old SBB Turbonetics T76 (non-super) with a Q trim .81 a/r. The power band of the engine runs all the way to 7800 rpm and as low as 4400 if the boost is there. It is running on straight alky with a conservative (for alcohol) CR (9.24 to one). That is another variable that makes the match much, much harder.
I never want to get into the ALS situation with rich a/f and greatly retarded timing to explode mixtures in the exhaust piping. The aim is to be reliable and not break turbine wheels. What do you think Dusty? Are you up to the challenge? I wouldn't blame you if you said no thanks. It would be a very difficult match. I've already been through it with other manufacturers.

 

[Otto J]

with a 7800 shift rpm and a BB 76 I find it strange they cant get a convertor right.

 

[Alky V6]

with a 7800 shift rpm and a BB 76 I find it strange they cant get a convertor right.

The trick is trying to do it without sacrificing top end efficiency (T/C slippage). You'd be surprised how important cubes, stroke and CR ratios play a part in the recipe. With my old engine config, 235 cid, same stroke (3.06"), 11.4 to one CR, I could get 500 rpm more stall out of this same T/C. You guys with the big stroke and big cubes have no clue how hard it is.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

The present turbo is the old SBB Turbonetics T76 (non-super) with a Q trim .81 a/r. The power band of the engine runs all the way to 7800 rpm and as low as 4400 if the boost is there. It is running on straight alky with a conservative (for alcohol) CR (9.24 to one). That is another variable that makes the match much, much harder.
I never want to get into the ALS situation with rich a/f and greatly retarded timing to explode mixtures in the exhaust piping. The aim is to be reliable and not break turbine wheels. What do you think Dusty? Are you up to the challenge? I wouldn't blame you if you said no thanks. It would be a very difficult match. I've already been through it with other manufacturers.

I could spool that 76 on your size engine without much trouble. I feel a lot of your issue is the alky and compression. 9.24 is lower than a lot of gas motors, combine that with the alky and a rich/conservative a/f ratio and you have a situation were no converter will work for you. I'd be glad to help you but think it's pretty much impossible with your current combo. That motor needs 11.5 compression on the alky to help it on the bottom end.

Also with the auto, you do not want a rich a/f, low timing tune while building boost. That's for the clutch cars. With the auto you need more timing and a lean a/f to get it up on the converter. With gas and 9.1 or more compression, you will see guys with 13.5 a/f and 38-40 degrees down low to get the car on boost. If you are using even a slightly rich a/f with conservative timing there is no way to make a converter work down low.

 

[turbobuick]

Bradco

I am using Bradco bolt together I got from Kip Asplund. We are seeing around 3% slip maybe a little less (156mph/3.70 gear/28.5 tire/6880rpm at DW42 in 90* heat ). Spool is not an issue with an 88mm turbo using Extreme Automatcis newest design transmission boost builder. So far in testing it has worked flawlessly and we can have the car on the limiter using a foot brake. This newest design is the best and easiest one I've seen yet adn I've had three different ones in my car to date. We are using the NOS tables in the Gen 7 to fully control the function based on rpm, time and boost. Pretty slick stuff.

 

[Alky V6]

I could spool that 76 on your size engine without much trouble. I feel a lot of your issue is the alky and compression. 9.24 is lower than a lot of gas motors, combine that with the alky and a rich/conservative a/f ratio and you have a situation were no converter will work for you. I'd be glad to help you but think it's pretty much impossible with your current combo. That motor needs 11.5 compression on the alky to help it on the bottom end.

Also with the auto, you do not want a rich a/f, low timing tune while building boost. That's for the clutch cars. With the auto you need more timing and a lean a/f to get it up on the converter. With gas and 9.1 or more compression, you will see guys with 13.5 a/f and 38-40 degrees down low to get the car on boost. If you are using even a slightly rich a/f with conservative timing there is no way to make a converter work down low.

I've tried all combos of a/f and timing with this current engine config. The nitrous has them all beat by far when it comes to time to build boost. Actually, power falls way off at anything in the 13s for a/f. You're suggestions are logical. Build up more heat energy with the leaner mixture. And I once thought the same thing until I tried it. The most stall has been achieved at 11.7 to 12.2 a/f, 29 degrees timing. You're absolutely correct about the compression ratio. That's why the previous engine was 11.4 to one. Much more bottom end. The problem ended up being that I was limited on the amount of boost I could use with the engine. I had calculated that 28 psi would be the autoignition point of the fuel and in Vegas the car proved me right when the air line to my boost controller popped off during a backfire on start up and was not noticed. During the launch, the boost spiked to 28 psi and 2 rods decided to fold in half on me. Hence the change to a much safer CR. My current setup may not be optimum, but it is much safer. I can't afford to be doing this motor over again. At 28 to 30 psi and the present CR, I should have the same top end power as the previous build and with the nitrous, the bottom end is not a problem at all. If applied correctly the nitrous is very safe.

 

[top gun]

On a side note,You can almost buy 2 PTC weld togethers for hte price of a Neil chance and 3 PTC weld togethers to 1 bolt together.

I agree Neil Chance is a great peice ALSO.
But from what i have seen it wont out perform a PTC at almost double the price

You get what you pay for...PERIOD!

 

[Alky V6]

You get what you pay for...PERIOD!

I'm with ya brada. I find it hard to believe that another T/C would impress me the way the Neal Chance did the first time I laid eyes on the internals. Beautiful craftsmanship. A true work of art. I'm very proud to run their product.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I am using Bradco bolt together I got from Kip Asplund. We are seeing around 3% slip maybe a little less (156mph/3.70 gear/28.5 tire/6880rpm at DW42 in 90* heat ). Spool is not an issue with an 88mm turbo using Extreme Automatcis newest design transmission boost builder. So far in testing it has worked flawlessly and we can have the car on the limiter using a foot brake. This newest design is the best and easiest one I've seen yet adn I've had three different ones in my car to date. We are using the NOS tables in the Gen 7 to fully control the function based on rpm, time and boost. Pretty slick stuff.

Good idea. So it's VSC but controlled by the GEN7. You can run a very tight converter and not worry about spoolup. I still think it's not required to have something like this until you get into the thumper sized or large twin turbo combos on the V6.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I'm with ya brada. I find it hard to believe that another T/C would impress me the way the Neal Chance did the first time I laid eyes on the internals. Beautiful craftsmanship. A true work of art. I'm very proud to run their product.

As long as your happy, that's all that matters. I'll continue to run a comparable product for a lot less money. This weekend the PTC bolt together went 4.45 at 175 at 3000# and out qualified Tim Lynch..Hard to say there is anything better out there when it takes that kind of abuse pass after pass. I'm more than happy with mine and will keep the extra $,$$$ for something else.

 

[top gun]

I'm with ya brada. I find it hard to believe that another T/C would impress me the way the Neal Chance did the first time I laid eyes on the internals. Beautiful craftsmanship. A true work of art. I'm very proud to run their product.

The Neal Chance is a true work of art! I will post some pics of his latest work for my TSM combo, it gave me a hard on when I opened the box.

 

[Alky V6]

When I pick a part to use on my race car, it has never been about price. It's always been design, craftmanship, quality, reputation and durability. Neal Chance has all those things above and beyond expectation. If price becomes a major factor in your choice, more times than not, you'll get bit. Especially, in a high HP situation. I'm not saying another T/C might not be as good. I would have to see the internals first, no matter how it performs. That's just me. I've seen too many reputed T/Cs, that people raved about, look like little more than stockers inside. Post some pics of the PTC internals when you get a chance.

The VSC system. I understand how that works, but does it give consistent runs time after time? Is it consistent enough for bracket racing?

 

[top gun]

When I pick a part to use on my race car, it has never been about price. It's always been design, craftmanship, quality, reputation and durability. Neal Chance has all those things above and beyond expectation. If price becomes a major factor in your choice, more times than not, you'll get bit. Especially, in a high HP situation. I'm not saying another T/C might not be as good. I would have to see the internals first, no matter how it performs. That's just me. I've seen too many reputed T/Cs, that people raved about, look like little more than stockers inside. Post some pics of the PTC internals when you get a chance.

The VSC system. I understand how that works, but does it give consistent runs time after time? Is it consistent enough for bracket racing?

Don,

You opinion on a quality converter is respected over someone pushing budget converters as a sideline to fund their race program.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Don,

You opinion on a quality converter is respected over someone pushing budget converters as a sideline to fund their race program.

Don's opinion is respected...your's on the otherhand

I'm not in this post pushing anything. Majority of guys racing are just like me. They want a quality part without getting bent over by the vendor. I haven't had to come on here and sell anything...The converters sell themselves...I do offer advice and tech help for those interested. Lucky for me, PTC is in my backyard and are great guys like the rest of us who see no need to overcharge for their product. It's not always true that you get what you pay for. BTW, those budget converters which are becoming popular in TSM and TSO combinations have the same internals as the one that went back to back 4.4's this past weekend. Nothing budget about it...I guess we could double the price so everyone thinks it's a superior product.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

When I pick a part to use on my race car, it has never been about price. It's always been design, craftmanship, quality, reputation and durability. Neal Chance has all those things above and beyond expectation. If price becomes a major factor in your choice, more times than not, you'll get bit. Especially, in a high HP situation. I'm not saying another T/C might not be as good. I would have to see the internals first, no matter how it performs. That's just me. I've seen too many reputed T/Cs, that people raved about, look like little more than stockers inside. Post some pics of the PTC internals when you get a chance.

The VSC system. I understand how that works, but does it give consistent runs time after time? Is it consistent enough for bracket racing?

I want the same things but refuse to overpay for any item. I'm with you, one of the most popular Buick converters over the past years is nothing but stock oem parts at a premium price.

I'll be glad to snap some pics of mine when I take it apart...It worked right out of the box so there was no need for me to take it apart. I have had it apart once this year for cleaning when I smoked high gear in the glide. Next time it's apart I'll get some for you.

 

[Alky V6]

Dusty. You're a smart fellow and I do greatly appreciate and respect the help you've extended. If you have any other tuning ideas, please shoot them past me. I think I've tried everything over the last 6 years, but I may have overlooked something.

If the internals of the PTC impress me, believe me, I'd be the first to say you have a fantastic deal going on there. But, I'm a difficult critic when it comes to design and craftmanship.