Champion race intake...TA heads ???

[coach]

Hey Guys,
Starting to finalize my new build but still thinking on some things. I was wondering if anyone had pics of the Champion race intake next to the stock intake. Just wondering how much higher it is.

Second question, Assuming you had to choose between aluminum heads, which are the best? I am leaning toward the TA, but see alot of you run the GN1, and Champions. What made you choose which brand?

Dan from DLS will do his thing. I talked to him and he has a 6 month lead time to get in line, so I have to get my ducks in a row.

The components I am leaning towards,
DLS Stroker kit for a 109.
RJC Girdle.
TA heads.
Champion race intake.
80#'ers from Turbo Tweek.
212-212 Hydrolic roller.

I already have.
PTE Stretched stock location intercooler.
72mm Billet throttle body.
Te45a with .63 Garrett.
GN1 3inch downpipe w/ ex waste gate.
Kenne Bell headers.
Vince Janis Stage 2 with Manual trans brake.
3200 10" lock up.
Razor ALKY.
GN1 dual 3 inch exhaust.

Engine management will be stock ECM with 6.0 chip and Powerlogger, and wide-band.
I know I could go bigger on the turbo, but I am running on the street most times. When I add a cage, I will step up Stall and probably go 70HPQ. I am building a 9 sec motor to run 10's, I know this. I want it to last, but have some left to play hard when I want.

Thanks
Coach

 

[49-blues]

I have champ irons & champ gn-1s-id go with TAs.

 

[davidf]

If you don't get a height answer tonite, I'll LYK in the morning. I have both intakes setting in my office. Theres definitly a difference. I'll measure them from the front base. FWIW the Champion is a piece of art.

 

[Eticket]

Its going to fit under a stock hood either way. is there a reason why you want to get a new intake? besides looks. You probably won't see any gain whatsoever out of it.

 

[cruzn57]

err what??

Its going to fit under a stock hood either way. is there a reason why you want to get a new intake? besides looks. You probably won't see any gain whatsoever out of it.

my champion intake flows yards more than the stocker, and way above the low port champion.
raised ports with heads to match.......... lots of power!

 

[coach]

my champion intake flows yards more than the stocker, and way above the low port champion.
raised ports with heads to match.......... lots of power!

Yep, I've been doing engines a long time and the Champion is basically a tunnel ram compared to a factory intake. You pay $525 for a ported intake and still have to buy a good doghouse, which is $130. I'll pay $750 and get a complete ready to go unit with major potential in the long run.

Thanks
Coach

 

[bison]

Yep, I've been doing engines a long time and the Champion is basically a tunnel ram compared to a factory intake. You pay $525 for a ported intake and still have to buy a good doghouse, which is $130. I'll pay $750 and get a complete ready to go unit with major potential in the long run.

Thanks
Coach

It will take some rpm to see some of that potential.

 

[coach]

A tunnel ram style intake always requires more RPM. What are we looking at...6000???more?

 

[Nick Micale]

It will take some rpm to see some of that potential.

I agree, with a TE-45A you may be just over 6000 RPM, but not at a level to take advantage of the upper power band using the aftermaket Champion intake.

With the .63 housing, it appears this is going to be very strong build on the bottom end, and my choice would be a ported stock intake. Many of these have been into low 9's, and better, with the proper combo.

Looking again, I see you are "going" to use a 3200 stall converter? I do not see how you will get traction on the street, or take advantage of the low-end pull of the turbo. We NEVER use a TE-45A with less than a 3600 stall, and usually more.

A local Limited runs mid-10's with a TE-45A with iron heads and is a real sleeper on the street with a 3800 stall.

With a 70 turbo, a 4000 stall would be my choice.

 

[Eticket]

Bison and Nick both have said what i've implied.

I'm also not convinced that the stock intake is a cork until you're in the low 9 sec range either - regardless of RPM (unless we're talking over 8000 or more). We're not dealing with N/A motors, we are using turbochargers - which changes all of these dynamics.

I haven't been there myself. But I've been fast enough and know enough combinations that guys have tried to understand what may or may not add power.

Just my $0.02 is all.

 

[S2V6RACER]

My input on the heads is go with the TA's. Since you dealing with Dan he has seen my TA's after the first round of beating and he has seen the Champions as well. I'm sure he will give you a no B.S. opinion on which heads because he works with both products and can give the most valued opinion of all.

 

[Scott Atk]

Have you asked Dan his opinion on the intake? I asked him the very same question and his opinion was a ported stocker was good till 1000HP. However, I'm with you, all things considered, the GN1 is sexy.

 

[coach]

I agree, with a TE-45A you may be just over 6000 RPM, but not at a level to take advantage of the upper power band using the aftermaket Champion intake.

With the .63 housing, it appears this is going to be very strong build on the bottom end, and my choice would be a ported stock intake. Many of these have been into low 9's, and better, with the proper combo.

Looking again, I see you are "going" to use a 3200 stall converter? I do not see how you will get traction on the street, or take advantage of the low-end pull of the turbo. We NEVER use a TE-45A with less than a 3600 stall, and usually more.

A local Limited runs mid-10's with a TE-45A with iron heads and is a real sleeper on the street with a 3800 stall.

With a 70 turbo, a 4000 stall would be my choice.

The choice of stall seems to be different with everyone. I talked to a guy from Pats convertors and Vince Janis and both said that the 3200 on a STROKER engine would be very good choice. If I were building a 231 I would need more, but with 250 cubes, 3200 will do great.


On the intake, I was looking at BANG FOR YOUR BUCK. $750 for the base, fuel rails, doghouse compared to $525 for a stock ported, another $170 for a doghouse and power plate and use a stock fuel rail. Thats a difference of $55 bucks. Dan will make the final recommendation, rest assured of that. If he says stocker, then stocker it is. I started this to get opinions, and that is what I am getting.

Thank you to all for your advise, now please deposit $5 in my PAYPAL to help pay for it...LOL Cause it going to get expensive...QUICK!
Coach

 

[Rell87]

I would go with the Champion intake and heads. I have no experience driving modded GN's other than mines but I tell all my friends to get the good stuff if you can so you don't have to beat on your car so much to make it go fast.

 

[BEATAV8]

whichever head you choose, you will need them race ported to match that intake manifold. At a minimum the heads will need to gasket matched to the big FelPro gaskets to work with that intake.

 

[ttypewhite]

coach, listen to Dan and your golden. I can guarrante he is going to opt for the stock ported intake over the Champion. Either head will work well with your application, but after running Champions for years and then seeing the construction of my new TA's after Dan did his magic to them, I would go TA.

 

[coach]

coach, listen to Dan and your golden. I can guarrante he is going to opt for the stock ported intake over the Champion. Either head will work well with your application, but after running Champions for years and then seeing the construction of my new TA's after Dan did his magic to them, I would go TA.

I have watched your thread with your new engine. WOW...that is all I can say. I have no need for a Stage motor, or I might consider. I have been told, by my better half ,that a 65 GTO had better make its way into the garage before I do much more to any of my cars. I am trying to convince her that a V6 turbo'd Goat would be really cool and get great gas mileage. She told me to "go blow", 389 tri-power all the way.

I plan on listening to Dan. I need to find out what all I need to get in line. He said in a phone call that he has a 6 month wait for new customers. I have 6 months to sell parts and raise $$$.
I kinda knew I wanted the TA's. I was on the fence until I saw the TA racecar at the Buick event in Columbus. What a thing of beauty...not the car, the girl in the pits She was the final selling point. If we do not support them, they may stop coming to the events, them I will have to find out where she lives...and then the stalking charges...and cops...and jail...and

Thanks
Coach

 

[bison]

Im just throwing this out there but yesterday i was dynoing one of my cars at Ottos and i simply couldnt get over 26psi with a P trim 62 turbo and a .63 Garret ex housing and standard tension actuator. I had it at least 15 turns past a slip on the wastegate arm too. I actually disconnected the pressure port and let the actuator open off of nothing but backpresure. Id expect the same out of a 45a since it has the same ex wheel and will have very similar backpressure at the same power levels based on engine speed and boost. A heavy actuator or external with a lot of spring will be needed to get the power out of it. I wound up boost limited to 474hp and 508 ft lbs. I had irons with bowls cleaned up and stock valves, 212/212 comp cam, Precision fm, PTC 9.5", stock MAF, through the mufflers, and old SMC alky and 93, 21* in 3rd. This is something to consider if looking for more than about 500hp at the wheels when using a small ex housing and standard actuator. You just cant easily have the ability to turn your boost down to 17-18 and crank it to 28 if you want at the same time. Ive noticed backpressure problems with the GTQ at a little over 650 to the wheels with a heavy actuator. Beyond this you need to be able to apply pressure to the wastegate to hold it shut when pushing the 3 bolt turbos. We dont want to be putting 1000hp worth of parts on an engine only to be limited by something as simple as a backpressure problem.

 

[fxdxlr8]

Original Question

I don't know if the OP got his question answered. If not, I hope these pics help. The actual overall height would be approximately 3/16 higher, I had the top of my dog house flange milled down to be even with the throttle body. I don't plan on using the vac box.

 

[coach]

Im just throwing this out there but yesterday i was dynoing one of my cars at Ottos and i simply couldnt get over 26psi with a P trim 62 turbo and a .63 Garret ex housing and standard tension actuator. I had it at least 15 turns past a slip on the wastegate arm too. I actually disconnected the pressure port and let the actuator open off of nothing but backpresure. Id expect the same out of a 45a since it has the same ex wheel and will have very similar backpressure at the same power levels based on engine speed and boost. A heavy actuator or external with a lot of spring will be needed to get the power out of it. I wound up boost limited to 474hp and 508 ft lbs. I had irons with bowls cleaned up and stock valves, 212/212 comp cam, Precision fm, PTC 9.5", stock MAF, through the mufflers, and old SMC alky and 93, 21* in 3rd. This is something to consider if looking for more than about 500hp at the wheels when using a small ex housing and standard actuator. You just cant easily have the ability to turn your boost down to 17-18 and crank it to 28 if you want at the same time. Ive noticed backpressure problems with the GTQ at a little over 650 to the wheels with a heavy actuator. Beyond this you need to be able to apply pressure to the wastegate to hold it shut when pushing the 3 bolt turbos. We dont want to be putting 1000hp worth of parts on an engine only to be limited by something as simple as a backpressure problem.

Funny you should bring up the backpressure issue. I just had a nice talk with Patrick at Precision Turbos about it. I am going to install a bung in my header just before the turbo bolts on for a backpressure gauge. I am aware of the issue and he said to take a reading at my desired boost. If I am more than double, I will need a bigger exhaust housing. He said that at 26 lbs I should have no more than double the lbs of backpressure. If so, I will go with a .63 Precision housing, which is closer to .70. I do run a 38mm external wastegate on my 3 inch downpipe. Do you think this will do? I will be running a set of Kenne Bell
headers. I am glad to have guys like you giving me advise. If I need the bigger housing to make it work correctly, let the numbers dictate it. I am a big fan of making things right. I am starting with the smaller and can go bigger. Start too big and you might never know what your missing either.

Thanks
Coach