E85 Great For The Enviroment
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Pronto
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.
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I'ld convert tomorrow if it was allowed to sold in this state.
PLAINWHITE T
Tree peddler
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Our exhaust smells good too. 
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If you wanted to drive you car all year, your cold months would be a real challenge with E-85.
My e-85 car in the garage at 50-60 degrees is very hard to start, and usually requires a shot of ether. A customer's car here with some additional mods is even harder starting than mine?
The "black jars" are really bogus in trying to compare "burning" in them to a new car with engine controls that allow VERY little pollution and particles into the air. The black residue is particles that are now efficiently eliminated at the tailpipe.
More "Al Gore" type propaganda by trying to baffle us with BS instead of facts!
Racing an engine pollutes. This is why the racing leagues like the IRL went ethanol.
But lets talk about alcohol and carburators .. talk to anyone in the lawnmower business lately with the stupid 10% ethanol.. E85 would kill them.. unless it went to EFI.. then the cost would skyrocket.
There is a cost with everything. Me.. just give me 93 premium with no ethanol
But lets talk about alcohol and carburators
.. talk to anyone in the lawnmower business lately with the stupid 10% ethanol.. E85 would kill them.. unless it went to EFI.. then the cost would skyrocket.There is a cost with everything. Me.. just give me 93 premium with no ethanol
If you wanted to drive you car all year, your cold months would be a real challenge with E-85.
My e-85 car in the garage at 50-60 degrees is very hard to start, and usually requires a shot of ether. A customer's car here with some additional mods is even harder starting than mine?
The "black jars" are really bogus in trying to compare "burning" in them to a new car with engine controls that allow VERY little pollution and particles into the air. The black residue is particles that are now efficiently eliminated at the tailpipe.
More "Al Gore" type propaganda by trying to baffle us with BS instead of facts!
Haven't had that problem Nick, mine starts in the 50's just fine, haven't tried the 40's yet. It might start and die once, but once it gets that little warmth on the plugs all is well.
Pronto
No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot.
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Don't drive the T in the winter here. Everyone puts away their car in November. We got ice and snow on the roads along with a healthy dose of salt right now. This morning it was 0* out.If you wanted to drive you car all year, your cold months would be a real challenge with E-85.
If you wanted to drive you car all year, your cold months would be a real challenge with E-85.
My e-85 car in the garage at 50-60 degrees is very hard to start, and usually requires a shot of ether. A customer's car here with some additional mods is even harder starting than mine?
The "black jars" are really bogus in trying to compare "burning" in them to a new car with engine controls that allow VERY little pollution and particles into the air. The black residue is particles that are now efficiently eliminated at the tailpipe.
More "Al Gore" type propaganda by trying to baffle us with BS instead of facts!
It's been 0 degrees around here lately and both of my cars start great with 100% e85. I've been converting these cars for a very long time now and have never ever had a cold start issue.
Have Dan give me a call. I think we can get you starting better.
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
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- Feb 14, 2002
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- 5,744
starting fine in the cold weather here too.
Not to mention the huge rise in the cost of groceries. No overall benefit in savings unless you're growing your own food...
The huge cost of groceries is mostly because of the regular fuel cost to transport it Diesel/Gas. Not the product. E85 is Green! It's 85% alcohol based from Corn. Look at how it burns, if you dont think that's better than pump gas than by all mean's give me a better explanation than what i just saw in the op video. I pay less than 87 octane pump gas and have race gas octane with anti knock properties of alcohol. And i know i didn't fund terrorism purchasing regular petro. I purchased it knowing it was made in the US Do i need anymore reason? BTW Have you seen Manny TSO car running on 2.9x sent fuel..
The only "petro" in E85 is to have the pump e85 blend..Where is the diesel?
1. Milling
The feedstock (usually corn, but can be a variety of other materials, including milo, wheat, sugar cane, beets, etc.) is passed through a hammer mill, which pulverizes it into fine particles, called meal.
2. Liquefaction
The meal is mixed with water and an enzyme called alpha-amylase, which helps break down the meal further, into individual molecules. It is then passed through cook tanks, where the starch molecules from the meal are liquefied from the actions of the enzyme and from heat. The cook temperature usually ranges from 250° F to 300° F. The liquefied meal is now called "mash", and is held at around 200° F, which reduces bacterial buildup while the mash is in holding.
3. Saccharification
The mash from the cook tanks is then cooled, and a second enzyme called gluco-amylase is added. This enzyme breaks down the starches in the mash into simpler molecules of sugars. The type of sugar created from this process is called dextrose.
4. Fermentations
Yeast is now added to the mash to ferment the sugars. Fermentation breaks down the sugar molecules into ethanol, a liquid, and carbon dioxide, a gas.
Ethanol producers can use one of two types of fermentation processes, continual or batch. In a continuous fermentation process, the mash passes from one fermenter to another, piped together in series. By the time the mash enters the final fermenter, all the sugar will have been fermented. In batch fermentation, the mash stays in one fermentation tank for approximately 2 days to allow complete fermentation. When the fermentation process is complete, the "mash" is now referred to as "beer." It is stored in a beer well before transfer to the next stage.
5. Distillation
The beer is about 10% alcohol by volume, and is not completely liquid. It also contains all the solids from the original feedstock (corn, milo, etc.) and from the added yeast. It is pumped from the beer well into a multi-column distillation system, which removes the alcohol from the beer by distillation. Basically, distillation utilizes the differences in the evaporating points of ethanol and water. Ethanol has a boiling, or evaporation, point of 178.4° F, so as long as the temperature of the columns ranges above that temperature and below 212° F, the boiling point of water, ethanol in a gaseous form, will rise to the top of the distillation column, where the gas is cooled to below 178° F. This causes the gas to condense back to liquid form, and contains a much higher percentage of ethanol than the original beer. This liquid condensate is then passed to the next distillation column in the series, where the process is repeated. By the time the product reaches the final distillation column, it is 96% ethanol, or 190 proof.
The residue from distillation, called stillage, is pumped from the bottom of these distillation columns to the co-product processing area. (See 8, below.)
6. Dehydration
The 190 proof ethanol is then passed through a molecular sieve, which removes remaining water that was not eliminated in distillation. Following dehydration, the ethanol is 200 proof and is referred to as anhydrous ethanol, which means "ethanol without water".
7. Denaturation
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (The ATF), requires any alcohol used for fuel be denatured, or un-drinkable. To render the ethanol unfit for human consumption, 2-5% gasoline is added to the ethanol.
8. Co-Product Processing
There are two main co-products created during the ethanol production process. The first is carbon dioxide. During fermentation, as the yeast "eat" the sugar, they not only create ethanol, but they also release large amounts of carbon dioxide gas. This gas can be captured, purified, compressed, and sold. It is used primarily in the food processing industry for carbonated beverages, and also for use in the flash-freezing of meat.
The stillage (the solids that remain after distillation) is sent through a centrifuge to remove excess liquid. This works much like the spin cycle of your washing machine. The liquid that is separated out is sent back into the process, and the remaining solids are referred to as "distillers grains". Wet distillers grains (WDG) are transferred directly from the centrifuge to a wet cake pad, where they are transferred primarily to local feedlots and dairies for use as a cattle ration. While the shelf life of this product is rather limited, several companies are marketing preservatives proven to significantly extend the product.
Another alternative is to route the wet distillers grains through a dryer to remove most of the moisture. This dried product is appropriately called "dried distillers grains" or DDG, and is a high protein feed ingredient for cattle, swine, poultry, fish, and has been researched for human consumption. It has a significantly longer shelf life than WDG.
1. Milling
The feedstock (usually corn, but can be a variety of other materials, including milo, wheat, sugar cane, beets, etc.) is passed through a hammer mill, which pulverizes it into fine particles, called meal.
2. Liquefaction
The meal is mixed with water and an enzyme called alpha-amylase, which helps break down the meal further, into individual molecules. It is then passed through cook tanks, where the starch molecules from the meal are liquefied from the actions of the enzyme and from heat. The cook temperature usually ranges from 250° F to 300° F. The liquefied meal is now called "mash", and is held at around 200° F, which reduces bacterial buildup while the mash is in holding.
3. Saccharification
The mash from the cook tanks is then cooled, and a second enzyme called gluco-amylase is added. This enzyme breaks down the starches in the mash into simpler molecules of sugars. The type of sugar created from this process is called dextrose.
4. Fermentations
Yeast is now added to the mash to ferment the sugars. Fermentation breaks down the sugar molecules into ethanol, a liquid, and carbon dioxide, a gas.
Ethanol producers can use one of two types of fermentation processes, continual or batch. In a continuous fermentation process, the mash passes from one fermenter to another, piped together in series. By the time the mash enters the final fermenter, all the sugar will have been fermented. In batch fermentation, the mash stays in one fermentation tank for approximately 2 days to allow complete fermentation. When the fermentation process is complete, the "mash" is now referred to as "beer." It is stored in a beer well before transfer to the next stage.
5. Distillation
The beer is about 10% alcohol by volume, and is not completely liquid. It also contains all the solids from the original feedstock (corn, milo, etc.) and from the added yeast. It is pumped from the beer well into a multi-column distillation system, which removes the alcohol from the beer by distillation. Basically, distillation utilizes the differences in the evaporating points of ethanol and water. Ethanol has a boiling, or evaporation, point of 178.4° F, so as long as the temperature of the columns ranges above that temperature and below 212° F, the boiling point of water, ethanol in a gaseous form, will rise to the top of the distillation column, where the gas is cooled to below 178° F. This causes the gas to condense back to liquid form, and contains a much higher percentage of ethanol than the original beer. This liquid condensate is then passed to the next distillation column in the series, where the process is repeated. By the time the product reaches the final distillation column, it is 96% ethanol, or 190 proof.
The residue from distillation, called stillage, is pumped from the bottom of these distillation columns to the co-product processing area. (See 8, below.)
6. Dehydration
The 190 proof ethanol is then passed through a molecular sieve, which removes remaining water that was not eliminated in distillation. Following dehydration, the ethanol is 200 proof and is referred to as anhydrous ethanol, which means "ethanol without water".
7. Denaturation
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (The ATF), requires any alcohol used for fuel be denatured, or un-drinkable. To render the ethanol unfit for human consumption, 2-5% gasoline is added to the ethanol.
8. Co-Product Processing
There are two main co-products created during the ethanol production process. The first is carbon dioxide. During fermentation, as the yeast "eat" the sugar, they not only create ethanol, but they also release large amounts of carbon dioxide gas. This gas can be captured, purified, compressed, and sold. It is used primarily in the food processing industry for carbonated beverages, and also for use in the flash-freezing of meat.
The stillage (the solids that remain after distillation) is sent through a centrifuge to remove excess liquid. This works much like the spin cycle of your washing machine. The liquid that is separated out is sent back into the process, and the remaining solids are referred to as "distillers grains". Wet distillers grains (WDG) are transferred directly from the centrifuge to a wet cake pad, where they are transferred primarily to local feedlots and dairies for use as a cattle ration. While the shelf life of this product is rather limited, several companies are marketing preservatives proven to significantly extend the product.
Another alternative is to route the wet distillers grains through a dryer to remove most of the moisture. This dried product is appropriately called "dried distillers grains" or DDG, and is a high protein feed ingredient for cattle, swine, poultry, fish, and has been researched for human consumption. It has a significantly longer shelf life than WDG.
MNcarbturbo
What's Fuel Injection?
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If you dont read the above post, the most important part to come out of it is the distillers grain part. Most of the nutrition of the corn is not used in the production of ethanol. Also, the VAST majority of corn goes to feeding livestock. Most of the actual "food" part of the crop is saved.
A lot of the energy input studies input the light energy it takes to grow the corn. There is no way at all that it takes a gallon of fossil fuel to make just a bit more ethanol.
And to those who claim the ethanol industry is heavyily subsidized, EVERY new energy source is subsidized. At least Ethanol is somewhat sucessful. It looks GREAT when gas is $4+ but poor when the price is the same. E85 always hovers around $3 it seems in my area.
No, ethanol is not the perfect fuel, but what is? Corn is not the best crop to take it from. Switchgrass, sugarcane, sugarbeet ect is better but the industry hasnt moved there yet. Corn is the most widely raised, easy to get crop so it was mistakenly chosen as the crop. It wont work nationally, but midwest could be predominantly biofuel while the coasts can do whatever they choose. The ethanol industry made a mistake. They should have marketed E40-50 instead. You dont loose the milage and get a bit higher compression. Build a 1.5L 4 cylinder to 13-1 compression and run ONLY E50 or whatever and youd pull out great milage. Problem is the best attribute (octane) isnt used in the flex fuel vehicles. You cant take a 7000lb truck with a 350cube V8 turning 2200RPM on corn and expect to get good milage out of it. High compression 6 spinning fast would have just as much power, get better milage, and be clean. Problem is the american consumer is too stupid to know thats what takes and will buy whatever they are told. Most people would buy a sack of crap if you marketed it.
Its not like electric cars are much better. Burn coal 100 miles away, send the electricity to the home. Well the car is zero emmission right! Just moving the source.
A lot of the energy input studies input the light energy it takes to grow the corn. There is no way at all that it takes a gallon of fossil fuel to make just a bit more ethanol.
And to those who claim the ethanol industry is heavyily subsidized, EVERY new energy source is subsidized. At least Ethanol is somewhat sucessful. It looks GREAT when gas is $4+ but poor when the price is the same. E85 always hovers around $3 it seems in my area.
No, ethanol is not the perfect fuel, but what is? Corn is not the best crop to take it from. Switchgrass, sugarcane, sugarbeet ect is better but the industry hasnt moved there yet. Corn is the most widely raised, easy to get crop so it was mistakenly chosen as the crop. It wont work nationally, but midwest could be predominantly biofuel while the coasts can do whatever they choose. The ethanol industry made a mistake. They should have marketed E40-50 instead. You dont loose the milage and get a bit higher compression. Build a 1.5L 4 cylinder to 13-1 compression and run ONLY E50 or whatever and youd pull out great milage. Problem is the best attribute (octane) isnt used in the flex fuel vehicles. You cant take a 7000lb truck with a 350cube V8 turning 2200RPM on corn and expect to get good milage out of it. High compression 6 spinning fast would have just as much power, get better milage, and be clean. Problem is the american consumer is too stupid to know thats what takes and will buy whatever they are told. Most people would buy a sack of crap if you marketed it.
Its not like electric cars are much better. Burn coal 100 miles away, send the electricity to the home. Well the car is zero emmission right! Just moving the source.
Squid4life
Well-Known Member
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- Jul 5, 2004
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- 6,275
My 2012 Suburban is running on 100% e85. It gets one mile per gallon less than 87 octane, yet is $0.85 a gallon cheaper. Truck acts no different whatsoever e85/87. "WIN" in my book.
My daily GN is 100% e85. I have 60's, a wired 340, and an e85 chip from Eric. No other changes whatsoever. It takes longer cranks to fire in the cold morning, and normally fires on the second set of cranking. We have been down to ~35 degrees lately, but it starts. Mileage on my car has always sucked due to the fact I do a lot of city, merge on, merge off, sitting in traffic. Longest I am on the highway is 3-4 miles. I think I get best of 15 on 91 driving like a complete grandma, never seeing boost. Average is about 12 mpg on 91... On e85 I baby it and get 12. I beat on it and get 11. If I was going for 100% economy, e85 may not be the best choice in the GN.
I rarely take it easy on my car. ~18-20 psi of boost is too much fun to hold back every time a crotch rocket pulls alongside and thinks you'd be an easy boost to their ego. A few bikes have fallen victim, but at the very least you get a second look when you are right there on their ass.
My daily GN is 100% e85. I have 60's, a wired 340, and an e85 chip from Eric. No other changes whatsoever. It takes longer cranks to fire in the cold morning, and normally fires on the second set of cranking. We have been down to ~35 degrees lately, but it starts. Mileage on my car has always sucked due to the fact I do a lot of city, merge on, merge off, sitting in traffic. Longest I am on the highway is 3-4 miles. I think I get best of 15 on 91 driving like a complete grandma, never seeing boost. Average is about 12 mpg on 91... On e85 I baby it and get 12. I beat on it and get 11. If I was going for 100% economy, e85 may not be the best choice in the GN.
I rarely take it easy on my car. ~18-20 psi of boost is too much fun to hold back every time a crotch rocket pulls alongside and thinks you'd be an easy boost to their ego. A few bikes have fallen victim, but at the very least you get a second look when you are right there on their ass.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
- Messages
- 2,195
My 2012 Suburban is running on 100% e85. It gets one mile per gallon less than 87 octane, yet is $0.85 a gallon cheaper. Truck acts no different whatsoever e85/87. "WIN" in my book.
My daily GN is 100% e85. I have 60's, a wired 340, and an e85 chip from Eric. No other changes whatsoever. It takes longer cranks to fire in the cold morning, and normally fires on the second set of cranking. We have been down to ~35 degrees lately, but it starts. Mileage on my car has always sucked due to the fact I do a lot of city, merge on, merge off, sitting in traffic. Longest I am on the highway is 3-4 miles. I think I get best of 15 on 91 driving like a complete grandma, never seeing boost. Average is about 12 mpg on 91... On e85 I baby it and get 12. I beat on it and get 11. If I was going for 100% economy, e85 may not be the best choice in the GN.
I rarely take it easy on my car. ~18-20 psi of boost is too much fun to hold back every time a crotch rocket pulls alongside and thinks you'd be an easy boost to their ego. A few bikes have fallen victim, but at the very least you get a second look when you are right there on their ass.
Sounds like my combo, 60 pounders, a 340, and a chip from Eric.
I see the same mileage as you, ~12mpg in-town. I did a run up to Bloomington, IN and back for an IU basketball game back in October and got 18mpg running 55-60mph on two-lane highways between Louisville and Bloomington. The same car on gasoline does 17 in the city, and I got 22 rolling from Louisville to Jefferson City, Missouri over Thanksgiving, running 70mph on the interstate.
E85 does burn cleaner, though. Those of us running without catalytic converters are doing the air quality in our areas a big favor by running it in the summer.
I also have had no major cold-start issues down to around 35 degrees. I haven't started it on E85 below that temperature yet, but I have a funny feeling I wouldn't have much trouble.
Oh, and the federal E85 subsidy was allowed to expire on Jan 1, 2012. It isn't in play anymore. What you're seeing on the pump is market price in most areas... though the farmers that grow the corn are still getting massive agricultural subsidies, as they have for many decades. Here in Louisville, E85 is within five cents per gallon of 87 octane gasoline.
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