EBL SFI-6 install & tuning thread

[34blazer]

Couple more questions...

For PE enrich over time coefficient, Im trying to slow down the event a little bit. Finally brought my car out today to dial in the Akly settings, BTW. I would like to slow down the blend rate for this parameter and was wondering which direction, and possibly magnitude, to adjust the coefficient.

For WB solenoid; the cobbled together air bleed was not effective, the solenoid will only bypass enough to attain 16 psi, and doesn't matter how high the set point is. I don't like seeing another piece of hardware where it shouldn't be, so Im thinking of finding a solenoid that could bypass more, with larger ports. I found a possible solution in the Chevy 6.5TD trucks, can find a solenoid with pigtail for under 40 bucks. Reading the details online I noticed that it operates off of vacuum, but figured it has the same function. Any thoughts on if this will work by replacing the factory WG solenoid with this one?

Found them on ebay, but cannot display on work computers...

http://www.ssdieselsupply.com/p54_wastegateboost_solenoid_green_dot_94_97.html


The other option would be to use the dual solenoids and remove the restrictor, and tweak PW as needed?

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

For PE enrich over time, reducing the Attack Enrich parameter will cause a slower enrichment. Halving the value will double the time it takes to enrich by the same amount. Note that the Decay Enrich can be increased (faster decay) as the attack is decreased. The decay is used so that a short lift and re-plant doesn't reset back to no enrichment.

For the WG solenoid, you can reduce the orifice size in the Y connection. This is with the standard '86/'87 TB WG solenoid. Currently I'm using a .031" orifice. I had to tweak this in as the solenoid will only pass so much air, and it isn't much.

I've played some with the Sy/Ty WG solenoid, but not enough to really know if it is better. Note that this is a N.O. solenoid versus the N.C. TB solenoid. So the plumbing needs to be changed. The 6.5TD solenoid will likely work, just need to check how much air it will pass and whether it is N.O. or an N.C. type.

IIRC, the use of dual solenoids was to get more range with a electronic boost controller (MSTC). As that unit allowed the boost to be changed by a twist of the knob. May also work in this case.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

From what I have found thus far is that the solenoid found on the 6.5 TD is a 3 port design, so the reference hoses can be configured to the NC side of the valve. Need to research a little more to verify


*edit*

3 port is coming back with a p/n of 1997152, which seems to be the sy/ty part

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Yes, that part number is the SY/TY solenoid (1997152). Thought the solenoid looked familiar. I don't believe that it is a three port design, I'll have to dig it out to check it.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

Also found this...

http://www.grainger.com/product/ARO...m/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6JJ54_AS01?$smthumb$

Could it work?

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

It may work, although need a 12 V solenoid such as the 6JJ52. My issue with those solenoids is this:

• Ambient Temp. Range: 32 Degrees to 125 Degrees F

Which to me means that it is not suitable for engine use.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

OK, the SY/TY boost solenoid is a 3-port design. And it isn't the same as the 6.5TD solenoid. Here is a picture of the SY/TY solenoid:



On RockAuto search this Standard Motor part number: VS62

Has some good pictures of the 6.5TD solenoid. It is also a 3-port design.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

http://www.theautopartsshop.com/turbocharger-boost-solenoid/stdvs62.html


Found a link for the VS62 solenoid, better pictures showing it has 2 ports. There's a brass fitting in one of the ports, which I'm just guessing here, is a restrictor for boost control? I'm also not sure if it is NC/NO type of circuit, and I prefer the NC type just incase it may fail, in which case wouldn't have to worry about overboosting, maybe.

Just realized that I have a whole box of .030" MIG tips that I could one use as a restrictor, I could file one out just a little if needed. Feel silly now lol. What size is the factory orifice in the wye connection?

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

It is a three port (the VS62), just that the third port has the foam filter built into the frame. Check the picture for the end that is opposite the other two ports. Where the SY/TY third port is accessible and has a foam filter clamped over it.

As for being NO or NC and failure, each gets plumbed differently. The NC type (stock TB) bleeds pressure off to prevent it from opening the WG. The NO type (SY/TY), is plumbed inline to the WG actuator, which closes off pressure to prevent it from opening the WG. With the third port bleeding pressure from the WG actuator.

An electrical failure on either will cause a no boost issue.

> What size is the factory orifice in the wye connection?

It is either .028" or .050", there is a pdf listing the TTA and TB orifice sizes. But the information on which is which isn't entirely correct.

> There's a brass fitting in one of the ports, which I'm just guessing here, is a restrictor for boost control?

It controls the bleed rate of the solenoid. Yesterday when I took the picture of the SY/TY unit I blew through the port (NO). It doesn't pass much air, definitely has a small orifice in it someplace.

The whole boost control system is a system of balances. Spring rate in the actuator, waste gate flapper area exposed to exhaust back pressure, exhaust back pressure, vacuum line diameters, orifice size in the wye, bleed rate of the solenoid, each of these affects the level of boost. Of which the level of boost itself will affect this balance as higher boost will move more air through the restrictions in the system.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

Thanks for the correction, took a closer look and saw the filter covering the third port.

Ended up ordering the VS62 and also found a nice Delphi connector that is 19" in length. Can't access ebay at work to post the links but the harness looks like it may be plug-n-play. Not sure if I want to try and keep it stock appearing or move the solenoid closer to the midpoint between the pressure port on the turbo and the port on the WG. I want to test it first and figure out if it will work before making the install permanent. If the VS62 is in fact NO, will I need to change a bit in the calibration? Or just the plumbing?

*edit*

Just drew up a picture to wrap my head around the plumbing for a NO solenoid, seems like it will work a lot better in spooling up the turbo since no signal will be introduced to the actuator until the desired set point. And there wont be a need for a restrictor it seems. The downside could be an overboost condition if the solenoid cannot flow enough? Im going to be real careful when I test this out. lol

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

The only change that may be required in the calibration is the PWM frequency. Although, I don't know what GM used for the 6.5 TD WG solenoid. It is different between the TB and SY/TY unit:

Option word 4:
Wg64H - set for 64 Hz waste gate solenoid (GN), clear for 32 Hz WG solenoid (Sy/Ty)

a NO solenoid, seems like it will work a lot better in spooling up the turbo since no signal will be introduced to the actuator until the desired set point.

It is the same for either solenoid. The pressure to the actuator is held off until the boost reaches X% of the desired level. At that point the EBL SFI-6 ECM goes into boost control mode:

WG - % of Boost to Exit Fast Spool

This is required due to the lag caused by the charge piping. The lag is between the output of the turbo and the MAP sensor port in the intake manifold. Which would otherwise cause boost overshoot.

Just drew up a picture to wrap my head around the plumbing for a NO solenoid

It is plumbed between the turbo pressure port and the actuator port (no Y). The tricky part is figuring out which port on the solenoid goes where. With the solenoid activated (connect to 12 v), the port that is blocked goes to the turbo pressure port. The other solenoid port should then be venting via the foam filter, and goes to the actuator.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

Quick search found ~33Hz for the PWM freq, according to a user that scoped it....

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=31608
"Yes, the signal is a constant frequency that is pulse width modulated (PWM). I measured it with my scope to be about 33Hz."


So I will set Option Word 4 bit to clear, and edit the xdf to include the VS62 6.5TD freq, after a successful test, that is.


Cant remember what I have to fast spool exit parameter set to, but will set it conservative at first. I think it's set at 80% right now since the car is corked up with blowmaster mufflers.


I'll figure out if the solenoid is NO or NC, and how it should be plumbed up, will report back with results. Should be here by this weekend, hopefully.

Thanks!

 

[34blazer]

Well the VS62(6.5TD) showed up today, dimensionally its almost identical, except it mounted on the bracket 180*, but no biggie. The port on the left(seen in picture) is open to vent, the port on the right with the restrictor is close with no power. Tomorrow Ill power it up and find out for sure what type it is.

 

[34blazer]

Ok, hooked up the solenoid, changed the frequency to 32Hz in the bin and turned the key on. The port with the brass restrictor is closed at key on, engine off. The port on the left is open to vent, so this seems to be an NO solenoid. I back probed the plug and voltage shows 12V(KOEO) on both sides of the plug. Once the boost threshold is met, I assume that this will change? Also energized the solenoid with 12V constant power and the port with the restrictor bleeds into the open port and the vent.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

At key-on, engine-off the WG solenoid is not powered. You can power it in this mode by jumping A & B on the ALDL connector. Note that this will enable other items such as the cooling fan.

Not energized: The port with the brass restrictor is closed at key on, engine off. The port on the left is open to vent.

Also energized the solenoid with 12V constant power and the port with the restrictor bleeds into the open port and the vent.

It appears that this is a bleeder type of solenoid, similar to the stock TB set up.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[34blazer]

Can't believe I'm still making stupid mistakes. Looked close at the wiring and found I had the leads for the solenoid backwards, which means that the solenoid hasn't been working this entire time! Since the VS62 is a bleeder solenoid, I think it will work well considering once it is energized it bleeds to the other port and through the vent, and flows well, even with the brass restrictor in place. Hoping to have some time soon to hook it up and take it for a test drive, should spool a lot better this time! Thanks Bob!

 

[34blazer]

Tried a .035" mig tip as a restrictor and it wouldn't build boost above 15 psi, switched it out with an .025" and success!

WG DC% hangs right around 79-80% at 20 psi in third gear. Fast spool set at 50% and it over shoots by 2-3 psi but settles right in. Going to set that at 40% and see what happens. Probably not going to take the car out for awhile since I will be moving in a few weeks, need to take care of other stuff.

 

[liquidh8]

Good info to know! I'm glad you are sharing this stuff so when I get to mine in the summer, I can reference what you are doing. I plan on using the ecm for boost control.

 

[34blazer]

No problem! Just arrived at our new house yesterday, getting setting in and hopefully will be doing some tuning in the near future. I was working with the Alky and have a rough tune, had to stop the last time due to a leak at the tank fitting.

 

[liquidh8]

Nice, are you using the ebl for ally control? I plan too. I just need to get a pump.