Must haves for Low 10 Sec motor

[mzunino]

I have always heard that you should build for more than what you want, so I am asking what do you need to get to low 10 in a shortblock (Really shooting for high 10's). Do you need a girdle, billet caps, forged rotating assembly or is our factory short block plenty? Please weigh in guys, I am having to go a cheaper route than I wanted(Son at home). Really looking for the real scoop on what is working for you guys.

Popped a head gasket this weekend so hence the questions. If its out might as well think about my options.

Thanks

 

[petesgn]

2 steel center caps, good flowing heads, 212/212 roller cam and roller setup, new billet turbo, at least 60pnds injectors with turbo tweak chip and alky injection, dont forget fuel pump and hotwire kit, not to mention a good working transmission and stall convertor to match, then tune and with 25psi you should be there..

good luck

 

[Sydwyndr]

Just make sure that the shortblock is reliable... If you wanna just race a few times a year I would go with 2 caps only, If you wanted to beat on it all the time I would go steel crank, good rods, CP pistons, and possible girdle. A good set of iron heads, small roller, 60lb injectors, and te45a turbo would get you there reliably. A completly stock motor in theory will also get you there but then wont be dependable IMO.

 

[Grumpy]

well we have a motor with over 20k on it.stock crank an rods... Key to keeping them alive is NO KNOCK.. Basically like you wanted to build BUT we have a girdle instead of caps. Oh we also had a "GOOD" set of Diamond pistons. Of course this is only my "opinion"

 

[2QUICK2B6]

I went girdle and caps but I dont think the TTA heads will flow enough

 

[bison]

Realistically plan on spending $15k on parts and machine work. Forged rotating assembly with steel center caps, heads, cam, converter, fuel management, trans upgrades, rear upgrades, suspension components, tires, fuel, the list can go on and on. The most commonly missed part I see is the torque converter. The most commonly missed component is the tune. A lot of 11 sec cars rolling around with only a tune and converter away from bottom 10's.

 

[SHADOWII]

All this time....

so I am asking what do you need to get to low 10 in a shortblock (Really shooting for high 10's). Do you need a girdle, billet caps, forged rotating assembly or is our factory short block plenty? Really looking for the real scoop on what is working for you guys.

I thought it was "MONEY!!!":biggrin:

What they said. The more bullet proof you try to make it, the higher the cost. All the horror stories get you wondering!?forged J/E pistons in case a cyl. leans out. 2/ Do I trust my old rods, they have a lot of mileage? Better go Oliver! 3/Crank has seen a lot of knock. Maybe go BMS! Now how am I going to keep the crank assy. in place? 4/Don't want to be part of the Drove Over the Crank Club! Caps! But the girdle is stronger. Ok, RJC! 5/Cam? need roller because of all the "wiped lobes out there. Roller is good. 5/Should I stick all this new stuff in an old block? Have an SG-1!? Wow!Went this far, may as well throw a stroker in there to boot!:biggrin: How much is this going to cost???? (Don't forget to add in the cost of the ambulance ride when they take you to the trauma center after seeing the estimate!):biggrin:

 

[Bent6]

For your goals the cost will be determined by the tuning. You also need to ask yourself how often are you going to take it to the track and beat on it?

A good tuner can meet those goals safely without an all out forged rotating assembly but there is no room for error. As an example, my street GN runs bottom 10s to high 9s with a WELL PREPPED stock rotating assembly - only a good set of pistons and 2 billet caps but the tune is dialed in and it never sees detonation. Not saying it's bullet proof - I'm definitely pushing the outer limits of the hardware but it just goes to show you don't have to have a forged stroker to get the job done.

 

[HelloBozos]

All you need is 600hp with 3200lbs car.. Thats 9.90 E.t.'s..It's the rest the car,suspenion,trans,rear,tunning etc etc that'll eat you outa house an home

i just run steel main stock block with stroker kit an GN1 heads.. $8000 roughly
But add the billet Trans,9 inch rear,you'll be over $10,000 for sure

Enjoy!

 

[Nick Micale]

The weakest link in a stock short block is the cast crank. Sure, people have run 9's with one, but it is a crap shoot to use a 25 year old crank to push 6-700 HP?

I have seen 13 sec. GN's spit out a crank with LOTS of other damage.

Having dis-assembled many stock and race engines, we have seen the main bearing wear from stock cranks due to flex, and do NOT see this with a forged crank.

To set up a GN to run consistent low 10's is NOT inexpensive, so it really makes no sense to use an old stock crank when you have to spend $1000's just for a reliable performance engine, and a forged crank is just a few hundred dollars additional.

Of course this is my opinion, but I doubt that many others has built and set up as many 9-10 sec GN's that I have which is where this "opinion" is formed.

 

[mzunino]

Thanks alot for all of the replies. Let me add a little more context, I run the car probably 4 times a year maybe 20 passes and beat it pretty good on the street. One of my hopes is I can get into the 10's(high) without pushing more than 22psi of boost. Yes I know the TA49 I am running now is not going to get it done, but that is also part of what I am looking to think through. Keep the comments coming.

 

[m233roller]

Had to do it guy !!

Must haves for Low 10 Sec motor? MONEY !!!

Sorry just being a smart AZZ.!!!

 

[Grumpy]

Of course this is my opinion, but I doubt that many others has built and set up as many 9-10 sec GN's that I have which is where this "opinion" is formed.

opinions opinions.. :biggrin: Our car had this stockish motor done in 2004 !!! Dammmm does time fly !!. One thing Ill add.. When it does blow up thats the nature of the beast, part of the game or whatever ya want to call it. Lots of good parts out there now

 

[bison]

The weakest link in a stock short block is the cast crank. Sure, people have run 9's with one, but it is a crap shoot to use a 25 year old crank to push 6-700 HP?

I have seen 13 sec. GN's spit out a crank with LOTS of other damage.

Having dis-assembled many stock and race engines, we have seen the main bearing wear from stock cranks due to flex, and do NOT see this with a forged crank.

To set up a GN to run consistent low 10's is NOT inexpensive, so it really makes no sense to use an old stock crank when you have to spend $1000's just for a reliable performance engine, and a forged crank is just a few hundred dollars additional.

Of course this is my opinion, but I doubt that many others has built and set up as many 9-10 sec GN's that I have which is where this "opinion" is formed.

+1
The stock crank is a problem for repeated high horsepower pulls. I recently found out the old block i ran a few years ago was cracked up the main to the cam bore. No detonation there either. The center main bearings had the high polished look from the crank flex. The caps/block showed very little evidence of cap walk. Can it be done with a stock crank? Absolutely. Why risk ripping an engine apart though?

 

[bison]

Thanks alot for all of the replies. Let me add a little more context, I run the car probably 4 times a year maybe 20 passes and beat it pretty good on the street. One of my hopes is I can get into the 10's(high) without pushing more than 22psi of boost. Yes I know the TA49 I am running now is not going to get it done, but that is also part of what I am looking to think through. Keep the comments coming.

Your goal should not be too hard to achieve. An 8.5:1 or higher cr stock stroke engine could get it done with a small hydraulic roller and a good tune. You won't be able to scrimp on parts like a converter if you want to run the number though.

 

[rmar]

Must haves for Low 10 Sec motor

Easy, 9 sec money and someone like Bison to tune it.

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

2 steel center caps, good flowing heads, 212/212 roller cam and roller setup, new billet turbo, at least 60pnds injectors with turbo tweak chip and alky injection, dont forget fuel pump and hotwire kit, not to mention a good working transmission and stall convertor to match, then tune and with 25psi you should be there..

good luck

I'm in the process of putting together the same combo mentioned above...Many have lived in the tens for several passes with a stock bottom end, but I don't have that kind of luck....Get the billet mains some aftermarket pistons and the other mods mentioned above.. Me personally I wouldn't put that kind of money in a motor with forged crank etc, only to run high tens not necessary IMO....

 

[mzunino]

Any other builders want to weigh in on the stroker vs non piece. I am looking at buying a new rotating assembly. Packages out there seem to be $300 more. Seems like its worth it for the displacement. Thoughts?

 

[Amelio]

From what I am hearing you say....you are wanting a fun street car that does not see much track time.....and high 10sec passes when you do go. That is pretty much what I am shooting for and what my setup is pointed at. I do not take my GN to the track a lot...thats what my Vett is for I beat on it... My buick is mostly a street car ocasionally at the track.

I dont have any wild crazy stuff....stock crank rods forged pistons and a girdle. I am running good hardware too. Stock heads and intake (champion ported) a mild roller and a TE 66. Like mentioned it is mostly in the tune and from what I have exsperienced myself it will take more than just ocassional trips to the track to get my car in the 10's. I feel I have the power to do it but it just takes more tunning.

For example last year was my first time at the track with this combo...I got in 8 passes....first one being low 13's with in 3 passes I had it in the 11's my last pass was an 11.54 on roughly 19psi. I feel the car will run in the 10's around 25psi but that is more trips to the track and more tunning than I would have planned.

I do beat on my car on the street pretty good, a few months ago I was at Reynolds for the Buick event. I popped a head gasket before I could get where I wanted. I actually just rebuilt the engine last week and will drop it in tomorrow. I decided to take it down and freshn it up. I was surprised to see virtually no ware on the rods or mains....I replaced them cause some trash had gone through but nothing that looked like they were getting beat up. I also put in head studs for a lil more security. So for what I do with the car what I have seems to work very well.

Imo you can acheive your e.t (high 10's) with less big parts but it will take a lot more track days and tunning than you think.....unless you are a very good tunner or know someone that is.

Hope that helps

 

[bison]

Any other builders want to weigh in on the stroker vs non piece. I am looking at buying a new rotating assembly. Packages out there seem to be $300 more. Seems like its worth it for the displacement. Thoughts?

Tmk the stroked kits advertised come with a .030 piston. This is a disadvantage if you have an issue with a bore. I'd rather go .010 or .020 over and leave some room for further boring. Basically you start with a $300 block and it has about $1000 worth of machine work done to it if it's girdled. I done like removing metal when it's not necessary. If I did it I'd be ordering 8 custom pistons most likely and that would add $500 more to the $300. There is some block clearanceing that needs to be addressed also. other than that there is no reason not to. If anyone is on a budget doing a build like this all I can say is good luck. You don't always get what you pay for but if it's cheap you will get nowhere with it. Spend the $ where it does the most good.