Painters please step inside.
- Thread starter TT/Ameasap
- Start date
I still agree with him and I'm a Journeylevel Autobody Tech. with all kinds of I-CAR and ASE certs and over a decade of working in the field professionally.The biggest reason we told him to strip the panel is because we all know the factory paint on GN's was crap and if your going to spend time on it, why not do it right! In the field we don't wipe down the panels to etch them, We would wax & grease them the spray on a self etching epoxy primer fallowed by a primer surfacer.
I agree the paint on these cars are laquer and that is very old school. You cant even buy it here in Calif anymore. Not a good choice considering what is avaible now. If I were to repaint any GN (Witch I'm planing on doing mine in the near future) I would strip the paint all the way to bear metal. Mainly because the paint has checked and exposed the stock primer/sealer. So I wouldn't trust that primer anymore. I would of corse use Plastic Media Blasting for reasions I have stated before. I've been painting sence I was 13, I'm 46 now. I was trained by the school of hard knocks and by a man that has made it in 4 hall of fames and has had many cars in major magizens. His cars have even been made into models and Hot Wheels. He was hired one time by Car Craft to bild the Car Craft Dream Rod. His name is Bill Cushenbery. I met him in 91 or 92 through my blasting bussness. I went to work for him within 6 months. Doing my blasting on weekends and after hours. I continued to work with him entill he retired. Then when he needed a little extra cash, He would come out and help me. Some times he would just come out and we would go to lunch or he'd be here for dinner. I have also been to many siminanars that have helped me to understand what I was doing. But I have also helped the teachers to relize some problems of their own. I have many certifacations somewhere in my desk. But most 99% of my knollage has come from years of experance. The biggest diferance between me and most other guys here on this board is all I do is restorations. I make my money by the hour not by the job. Unlike the production shops. So the bigest person I have to keep happy is my customer. I fallow guidlines that work for me and have a very good reputation. My cars last well over 10 years after I'm done with them. Providing of course they don't wreck or scratch them.
I didn't come here to make waves. I just post to try and help those who ask for it. Its very expencive to hire all the work done. I started out teaching myself. If I had some one to help earlier when I need it, it would have been so much easier. Thats why I started posting so every one can learn something new. Maybe even me. I am not aposed to learning from someone else to make my life a little easier. If I can learn from somebody that can make my job a little easier or faster that helps my customers also.
I didn't come here to make waves. I just post to try and help those who ask for it. Its very expencive to hire all the work done. I started out teaching myself. If I had some one to help earlier when I need it, it would have been so much easier. Thats why I started posting so every one can learn something new. Maybe even me. I am not aposed to learning from someone else to make my life a little easier. If I can learn from somebody that can make my job a little easier or faster that helps my customers also.
Plastic Media takes speical epuipment. So no you can't do it in your garage. It takes a high volume low presure system that is very expensive.
Something to note. The bad thing about plastic media is it gets everywhere just like sand. Theres a down side to everything.
Something to note. The bad thing about plastic media is it gets everywhere just like sand. Theres a down side to everything.
What are we talking in $$$,see link below....
lloks like anyone with a HS education can make this system....
http://www.kramerindustriesonline.com/blasting/ppb/ppb.htm
The systems that are on that site are not HVLP systems. With a high presure system like that you will destroy the plastic media in no time at all. The cost of the media is very expensive and you want to be able to recycle it.
The system I had was a comercial size unit and it would recycle and clean it so it could be reused. The last time I bought Plastic Media I paid $1100.00 for 1000 lbs. Do the math thats $11.00 a pound and sand is around 50 cents a pound when bought in bulk, maybe cheaper. To buy plastic media by the 50lb bag I think goes for around $15.00 a pound. To do a compleat car you need at least 400lbs. You cant buy plastic media in bulk enless you buy at least 1000lbs at a time. So you would have to buy 8 50lb bags then pay to have it deliverd. You can buy alot of sand paper for that kind of money.
When I was blasting cars you could drop them off in the morning and pick them up that night. I charged $450.00 to do a compleat car on the outside. More if you wanted it done inside and out. Or I would charge $45.00 for a fender or door and $55.00 for a deck lid or hood. Anything smaller it was a $25.00 start up fee. If you brought them to me first thing in the morning and I wasn't doing a car already I would do it wile you wated or you could come back in about 30 mins. and take it home. Preaty hard to beat.
I had over $30,000.00 invested in just my equiment. Thats just the unit and the very large compressor it took to feed the unit. Then I had to buy another compressor to feed air into my hood, bild a booth to do the blasting in so I could pick up and reuse the media. Then of corse the building to do the work in. I had an easy $60,000.00 in everything to get my bussness up and running. The hose that fed the media was 1.5 inches in diamiter. The hose that fed the machine was 3 inches in diamiter. Your average home compressor would bearly keep up with the air system that fed the hood.
The system I had was a comercial size unit and it would recycle and clean it so it could be reused. The last time I bought Plastic Media I paid $1100.00 for 1000 lbs. Do the math thats $11.00 a pound and sand is around 50 cents a pound when bought in bulk, maybe cheaper. To buy plastic media by the 50lb bag I think goes for around $15.00 a pound. To do a compleat car you need at least 400lbs. You cant buy plastic media in bulk enless you buy at least 1000lbs at a time. So you would have to buy 8 50lb bags then pay to have it deliverd. You can buy alot of sand paper for that kind of money.
When I was blasting cars you could drop them off in the morning and pick them up that night. I charged $450.00 to do a compleat car on the outside. More if you wanted it done inside and out. Or I would charge $45.00 for a fender or door and $55.00 for a deck lid or hood. Anything smaller it was a $25.00 start up fee. If you brought them to me first thing in the morning and I wasn't doing a car already I would do it wile you wated or you could come back in about 30 mins. and take it home. Preaty hard to beat.
I had over $30,000.00 invested in just my equiment. Thats just the unit and the very large compressor it took to feed the unit. Then I had to buy another compressor to feed air into my hood, bild a booth to do the blasting in so I could pick up and reuse the media. Then of corse the building to do the work in. I had an easy $60,000.00 in everything to get my bussness up and running. The hose that fed the media was 1.5 inches in diamiter. The hose that fed the machine was 3 inches in diamiter. Your average home compressor would bearly keep up with the air system that fed the hood.
Bo sorry for the hijacked thread...
Drop Top,Once again you are a great asset to the board...Thanks for going into such detail...
I tried to do a search for people like you in my area,,but came up short of companies,,Where should I look for this type of service--need my car blasted..
Dennis
Drop Top,Once again you are a great asset to the board...Thanks for going into such detail...
I tried to do a search for people like you in my area,,but came up short of companies,,Where should I look for this type of service--need my car blasted..
Dennis
I'll I can think of, is to look in the old fashion Yellow Pages under sand blasting, car restorations or custom cars. If you live in a small town you might the out lieing areas or maybe in a larger town neer you. Sorry I can't be of more help on this one.
Red Regal T
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I really am Mr. Know it all compared to you. I'm not interested in typing 47 paragraphs trying to explain the ins and outs of painting cars. Why should I, if somebody else wants to. Many times the person asking the question, is not going to paint anything. Besides, the proof is in the pudding. I don't need any instructions.
Additionally, I'd like to see somebody DA a chevelle hood to bare metal in 30 minutes.
In other words, any bull$hit is OK to make a point. And still, 3 coats of clear is not enough clear for a flat mirror finish. End of story!Again, for anybody who wants to know, if you're doing it yourself, it's much easier to chemical strip panels. If you send it out to have it media blasted, don't be surprised if you get back warped panels.
Maybe you won't notice. Red Regal T;
It is very obveious to me you don't know how to use a D/A in the correct maner. I havent read alot of your posts and I'm sorry but I didn't catch what kind of shop you work at and have you been at that shop for very long? Or do you move around alot? Its very obveious you have never had anything striped using plastic media or you would not be saying such idotic remarks. Its been my experance that the people that can't carry on a conversation without throwing insults in every other sentence. Is tring to bullsh-t his way through the subject. Because he really dosn't know what he is talking about.
Like I have stated before I've been doing restorations a very long time. I started painting when I was 13 and I'm 46 know. I'm not going into all of my sucesses, You wouldn't belive me anyway. I don't know everything but experance dose goes along way. I did my first restoration in the late 80's. The first time I striped a car was When I was 17, that was around 76. It was a 70 Chevelle SS I bought for my then girlfriend. Thats when I started to realize there had to be a better way of doing it. In around 91 or 92 is when I had the funds to start working for myself and thats when I started my plastic media striping bussness.
I looked at some differant ways before I went with plastic. The other ways that I looked at where Bakeing Soda and Walnut Shells. The other two do not harm the metal, glass or chrome eather. They leave the metal or fiberglass like it was never painted. I chose to go with plastic for the same reasions that Plastic is the most popular in the bussness right now. If you read any of the popular car magizens. They have all had something blasted by plastic at one time or another. So if you read any of those 47 paragraphs with an open mind you might learn a little something. Or is your attention span not long enough?
By the way if you would do a little research on your own and apllie yourself a little more, you might work yourself up the latter and make a little more money in the mean time. Not to mention the respect of others. But on the other hand, you would have to be able to take advice and work with people a little better. I don't think you are capable of that. But I might be wrong. Enough said my fingers are getting tired of tring to make you understand anything. Sorry I couldn't make this go on for another 42 paragraghs.
Good luck in the future. D T
It is very obveious to me you don't know how to use a D/A in the correct maner. I havent read alot of your posts and I'm sorry but I didn't catch what kind of shop you work at and have you been at that shop for very long? Or do you move around alot? Its very obveious you have never had anything striped using plastic media or you would not be saying such idotic remarks. Its been my experance that the people that can't carry on a conversation without throwing insults in every other sentence. Is tring to bullsh-t his way through the subject. Because he really dosn't know what he is talking about.
Like I have stated before I've been doing restorations a very long time. I started painting when I was 13 and I'm 46 know. I'm not going into all of my sucesses, You wouldn't belive me anyway. I don't know everything but experance dose goes along way. I did my first restoration in the late 80's. The first time I striped a car was When I was 17, that was around 76. It was a 70 Chevelle SS I bought for my then girlfriend. Thats when I started to realize there had to be a better way of doing it. In around 91 or 92 is when I had the funds to start working for myself and thats when I started my plastic media striping bussness.
I looked at some differant ways before I went with plastic. The other ways that I looked at where Bakeing Soda and Walnut Shells. The other two do not harm the metal, glass or chrome eather. They leave the metal or fiberglass like it was never painted. I chose to go with plastic for the same reasions that Plastic is the most popular in the bussness right now. If you read any of the popular car magizens. They have all had something blasted by plastic at one time or another. So if you read any of those 47 paragraphs with an open mind you might learn a little something. Or is your attention span not long enough?
By the way if you would do a little research on your own and apllie yourself a little more, you might work yourself up the latter and make a little more money in the mean time. Not to mention the respect of others. But on the other hand, you would have to be able to take advice and work with people a little better. I don't think you are capable of that. But I might be wrong. Enough said my fingers are getting tired of tring to make you understand anything. Sorry I couldn't make this go on for another 42 paragraghs.
Good luck in the future. D T
turbot2496
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2003
Red .... Red... please just stop....
Plastic media blasting is awesome.... If you can afford it and need it - do it. I've never heard of anyone who is competent in media blasting warping anything. You can plastic media blast an aluminum can and not warp it .... so please just quit spreading false info. Also, it doesn't take all day to DA a frickin hood. Just quit. You are usually quite knowlegable, but you are so obviously wrong in this instance we have to point it out. No offense.
Also I believe the car we were talking about was a TTA and not a GN if I'm not mistaken. The TTA doesn't have a laquer finish so if the primer coat is undamaged(?) it should be fine not to strip it to bare metal. It is commonly taught to not strip a factory primer coat unless its damaged ,which on a 89 model year car with paint peeling, may very well be the case. The thread starter should be able to easily determine this. If you do decide to strip, DropTop is right on. Media blasting by a pro if available, is the best bet.
Not trying to ruffle feathers .... just trying to eliminate some confusion for the original poster.
Plastic media blasting is awesome.... If you can afford it and need it - do it. I've never heard of anyone who is competent in media blasting warping anything. You can plastic media blast an aluminum can and not warp it .... so please just quit spreading false info. Also, it doesn't take all day to DA a frickin hood. Just quit. You are usually quite knowlegable, but you are so obviously wrong in this instance we have to point it out. No offense.
Also I believe the car we were talking about was a TTA and not a GN if I'm not mistaken. The TTA doesn't have a laquer finish so if the primer coat is undamaged(?) it should be fine not to strip it to bare metal. It is commonly taught to not strip a factory primer coat unless its damaged ,which on a 89 model year car with paint peeling, may very well be the case. The thread starter should be able to easily determine this. If you do decide to strip, DropTop is right on. Media blasting by a pro if available, is the best bet.
Not trying to ruffle feathers .... just trying to eliminate some confusion for the original poster.
