Powermaster to Hydroboost conversion

[kaj]

so is this better than a vacuum setup?

 

[DaySleeper]

total cost update

I got everything needed for this project including the hydroboost unit, master cylinder, brass tee, all the hoses, and even clamps for $260 shipped from rockauto.com.

 

[DaySleeper]

Hose from hydroboost to pump

Holy crap! On a '87, that pressure hose from the pump to the hydroboost is a whore to get on! It is nothing like the routing of the original.

I ended up only taking off the serpentine belt and the belt tensioner pulley and managed it but I don't recommend this project for a novice. Surely there must be a preformed pressure line from some other application that might work better?

Other than that little nightmare, the upgrade was pretty straightforward and I recommend it to guys who know what they're doing or know someone who does.

Nice thread... I referred to it repeatedly.

 

[Jordan_J]

If you guys want to try and help I posted this thread in the brakes section!

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/br...dal-after-first-inch-car-off.html#post2887951

 

[mj440]

Thanks for the write up, I just used this to do my conversion. Great resource!

 

[TexasT]

Ok guys after I got the car back together I gave the brakes a try and they didn't work when I was just rolling unless I pushed them to the floor. I parked the car and re-bled the brakes 10 times per wheel (I'm not sure how many times I bled the brakes the first time probably close to that). Now the roads cleared out a little bit so I took it for a spin around the neighborhood and the brakes stop the car but it doesn't feel any better than the powermaster did. I need to depress the pedal at least half way to stop the car and it doesn't jerk to a stop like I suspected. Do you think the brakes need to be bled more or could there be another issue?

I'm not sure what you are doing with the bleeding but if you aren't getting the air out you aren't going to get a firm pedal no matter how many times you re-bleed. That is why the speed bleeders are nice, they don't let the air back in when the pedal is let up. You need to have a helper "man" the pedal and follow your instructions. I use a clear receptacle and clear tubing when bleeding so I can see what is coming out and if it has bubbles. I bought the speed bleeders but I couldn't wait and bled mine old school. I also recommend a 2x4 under the pedal so an over excited helper doesn't stroke it all the way to the floor.

Here are a couple of pix on how I massaged the pressure line where it attaches to the pump.


Clamped to a secure spot



Inset prying implement(I used a phillips screw driver)



I thought about doing it like this but thought better of it.

I love mine. I bought it new and the brakes never worked as good as they do now.
I did jack the front of the car up, extracted as much old fluid out of the power steering reservoir as possible, and put in new, started the engine and cycled the steering lock to lock several times to burp the system before bleeding. Worked great.

 

[BuickMike]

Well, I finished up mine. It went pretty well thanks to this writeup and the one from 1quick6 on his website. Removing the belt, alternator, and tensioner made it easy to get to the ps pump line. Removing the return hose from the pump and bending the pressure line that goes to the hb made that part a slam dunk. I had no issues with the bleeding part for the power steering side. No bubbles. It seems to work decent, but I get a little less power assist than with the powermaster and I am getting a little whine from the ps pump when turning the wheel at idle. I believe this is the original ps pump that came with the car. Instead of trying a new Chineese POS one, I will probably send this one out to get rebuilt and setup for more volume.

 

[turboc87gn]

Earls makes the correct Saginaw fitting to use braided line and an fittings instead of trying to use a compression fitting

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[noahzark]

Can you tell me exactly which earls fittings you need? And can you use them with any stainless steel lines or do you have to use the aero quip Teflon stainless steel lines? I mistakenly had a shop do this conversion for me I supplied all the parts as I have had them for a while they routed the high pressure hose to close to the manifold and it burned right through spewing oil everywhere oh ya and no brakes and steering hehe. At any rate I had another hose made and installed. I mistakenly took it to another shop for them to do all the other brake components calipers rotors etc. They said the brake switches needed replacing so they did but the brakes are still not very responsive the pedal seems hard and it only slowly slows the car down so is this article with those parts a true bolt on as the tech was saying something about the booster rod not lining up or perhaps the bore was wrong? Those were his initial thoughts until he said it was the brake switches thus replacing them but making no real difference to me. I just rented a garage with a lift and can keep all my tools so I'll be doing all the work now. I've been reading on the board about the astrovan hydroboost and how we need to fab the bracket and the rod to work with the 87 gn PM pedal set up. So in this conversion we don't need to do any fab work or adjustments? Just follow instructions and ideally there should be no issues?

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

 

[TexasT]

Noahzark I sent you a pm. Post back if you have questions.

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[BuickMike]

I just wanted to comment on this. I did the swap and it is Awesome!!. I do hear a hint of whine when turning the wheel at idle getting in and out of the driveway, but that is it. The steering has a hair less assist too. I will probably get the pump rebuilt and revalved by Lee Manufacturing at some point, but it is fine for now. Brake peddle feel has more feedback, and the brakes are night and day in stopping power. I have 2nd gen S10 Blazer front brakes with 2 piston calipers and 11" rotors. I also have S10 rear wheel cylinders. With this setup on the powermaster, I could barely stop by the 2nd turnoff at my dragstrip when trying to stop from 120mph. Last Friday I went to the track with the Hydroboost and was able to come to a complete stop before the 1st turnoff and I was not trying that hard. I will never look back.

 

[lrayzer]

Agreed, I love my hydroboost, even with the stock brakes still.

 

[Jonasterg]

To everyone who contributed to this thread, and especially turbonut85, THANK YOU for putting this together.

I read this thread and decided to buy all the hydroboost conversion parts from RockAuto yesterday. Got everything for $240, shipped. I still have the PowerMaster and figured I'd swap this season instead of risking it.

Earlier today I took the car out for the first time since putting it in winter storage. I'd been out for about 10 minutes, cruising around my neighborhood and watching the ScanMaster when the BRAKE light lit up on the dash. Uh oh... I got back to my house slowly and the brakes were weaker each time I needed them. Pulled into the garage and had to SLAM the pedal to the floor to stop - about 6" from the garage wall.

While it sucks my PowerMaster took a dump, I couldn't have had it happen at a better time. The new stuff is already on the way and I'll use my next free weekend to try the swap.

Thanks again to everyone. This board is awesome.

 

[Carl Ramsey]

Any chance you can post the conversion list with RockAuto part number?

 

[TexasT]

Any chance you can post the conversion list with RockAuto part number?

http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=4228.0
The parts I used are in my thread.


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[Jonasterg]

I used basically the same parts that TexasT listed. Here's my exact list (sorry about the formatting):

Push-On Hose Tee

DORMAN 493031 (55108) 1 @ $4.35​

Oil Cooler Line (People recommend 4-5 feet; this is two 3 foot sections)

GATES 27057 2 @ $8.57​

Hose Clamps (pack of 10)

GATES 32006 10 @ $0.73​

Master Cylinder

A-1 CARDONE 101984 (10-1984) 1 @ $26.79​

Power Brake Booster

A-1 CARDONE 527211 (52-7211) 1 @ $129.99​

Power Steering Pressure Hose

EDELMANN 71187 1 @ $13.54​

Power Steering Pressure Hose

EDELMANN 91660 1 @ $21.79​

I'm including the core charges here. If you return the cores you'll get $25 back. However, I think Kirban might still buy PowerMaster cores from people for a better price. I also might pick up a flare wrench and some Brake Line Forming Pliers to make my life a little easier.

If I find out I'm missing anything else I'll update this post.

 

[gsgnnut]

Good article with details. I have vacuum conversion on my GN now but the HB is something to think about

 

[Jonasterg]

Finished my swap this weekend. Pops and I spent over 5 hours just fighting with the bolts under the dash... after that, everything else was pretty straightforward. The writeup here was fantastic. Thanks everyone for your help.

Brakes feel great and I can't wait to see how much boost I can hold at the track.

 

[Dennis Kirban]

Most of us agree the Powermaster brake system is unreliable and expensive to repair. So for those who want to do the Hydroboost swap, here goes.....

You have two choices:
1. pick up a used system off another turbo car. 83-84 TR's sometimes 85 too.
2. go to the local parts store (NAPA, Oreilly's, Autozone etc..)

---if using option 2, have the parts guy look up the parts under 1984 Buick Regal 3.8L turbo, VIN 9...and SHOP AROUND!!! prices will differ greatly between stores!!

Parts needed:




you will need:
-booster

View attachment 90566

-master cylinder

View attachment 90567

pressure line (pump to HB)

View attachment 90568

pressure line (HB to steering gear)

View attachment 90569

3/8 return hose

View attachment 90570

-you can get these from the local parts stores (NAPA, Autozone, Oreilly's etc.)


Master Cylinder
Cardone 10-1984


Hydrobooster
Cardone 52-7211


Hose (pressure: pump to hydroboost)
Duralast 91660


Hose (pressure: hydroboost to gear)
Duralast 71187


Hose (return: 3/8" bulk transmission hose)
Gates
4'

T fitting
(standard 3/8" vacuum T)


Hose clamps
3/8" hose clamps
6

Brake fluid (DOT 3-4)
1 quart

Kirban question:

I bene told the 84 hyrdoboost unit the rod to the brake pedal is a different length than the one in the powermaster set up...does the 84 style work or do you have to put in a powermaster length rod to go from unit to brake pedal. I assume hole size is the 1/2 for the pin on the pedal bracket?

thanz

denniskirban@yahoo.com

 

[BuickMike]

Kirban question:

I bene told the 84 hyrdoboost unit the rod to the brake pedal is a different length than the one in the powermaster set up...does the 84 style work or do you have to put in a powermaster length rod to go from unit to brake pedal. I assume hole size is the 1/2 for the pin on the pedal bracket?

thanz

denniskirban@yahoo.com

I used the one in the writeup, which is supposed to be the '84-'85 unit and it went on my '87 perfect. As far as I know the rod is the same.