Powermaster to Hydroboost conversion

["Turbo-T"]

Speed bleeders replace the stock bleeder screws on the wheel cylinders and calipers. They have a check valve built in so that they do not let air in while bleeding. The net result is you eliminate having to open and close the bleeder valve dozens of times while bleeding. Also, they already have thread sealant on them, so if you bleed with a vacuum pump you are done in 1/4 the time. I think they are well worth the $20 for the four.

The part numbers are:
Russell Speed Bleeder
Fronts are PN 639580 - 10mm
Rears are PN 639520 - 8mm

Thanks, now on speed bleeders, are they any good if I use a pressurised fluid to feed thru the caliper bleeder screws to send out the air up to the MC?

Also i noticed someone mentioned about their PM pedal going to the floor being a bad sign....doesn't the PM pedal always go to the floor if you have max psi and no air and the PM MC is good and you're pushingthe heck out of it?

 

[1quick6]

Thanks, now on speed bleeders, are they any good if I use a pressurised fluid to feed thru the caliper bleeder screws to send out the air up to the MC?

Also i noticed someone mentioned about their PM pedal going to the floor being a bad sign....doesn't the PM pedal always go to the floor if you have max psi and no air and the PM MC is good and you're pushingthe heck out of it?

You can't do it that way with speed bleeders because of the check valve. The open when fluid is going OUT of the bleeder and they snap close when pressure is relieved to prevent air from getting back in. If you are using one of those Phoenix reverse bleeder systems or similar injection systems that force the bubbles to the MC, stick with standard bleeders.

My old PM never went to the floor.

 

[1quick6]

Well, I just wrapped up my project. It took a lot longer than I expected due to problems here and there. Having to replace wheel cylinders, bleeder screws, etc. I am happy to say that it was a success with a rock solid pedal and amazing response. Thanks to Keith for answering a few questions on getting that darn booster to pump hose to line up. I am going to post pictures of everything on my site, including how the hose was, to use Keith's terminology, "tweaked" in a vise to line up to the port on the pump.

I have NO noise at all from the power steering pump. Not sure what to think about that ... whether I am lucky or what. It is a stock original. I am not sure what the whine is supposed to sound like that people complain about, but if I am not hearing something that bothers me, it's all good.

The Russell speed bleeders are KING. It only took minutes to bleed the wheels with the pump and hold method with aquarium tubing and an Evian bottle.

DEFINITELY bench bleed the MC. I took great care in bleeding that and my lines. The result is that my brakes are more solid than ever! I also clamped the proportioning valve while bleeding as the shop manual states and I am now sure there is no air in the lines.

I now have to get used to the different braking feel. It is definitely better, but I am going to rework the back brakes a bit in the future. It could hold some serious boost a the line if the rears would clamp tight.

I probably have 10 hours in this project. It definitely is a lot of work and you have to step back and take a deep breath at times, but in the end I'd say it was worth it. It feels good to have done it myself with excellent guidance from this thread!

 

[1quick6]

Random Pics:

 

["Turbo-T"]

My old PM never went to the floor.

Hmm...because on mine it would go to the floor if I really pushed on it, though I don't have to do that to stop the car, just I noticed it when I was racing at the track and brake boosting.

Also yes I have a reverse brake bleeder...do I still need to push in the button on the prop valve?

 

[1quick6]

Also yes I have a reverse brake bleeder...do I still need to push in the button on the prop valve?

I would think you would still want to clamp the prop valve, but I can't be sure. It was new to me, but it does state you must do it in my Chilton manual and on gnttype.org. I used one of those slide jaw clamps to keep mine in place. It takes 10 seconds to clamp it.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Yeah I'm wondering why you have to clamp the button and what it does. And if it's even needed for reverse bleeding.

 

[charlief1]

The valve is centered in the prop valve and as fluid is moved it will move. This is what turns on the brake light. You have to depress the stem to keep the valve centered to allow for full flow or it will restrict the fluid flow.

 

["Turbo-T"]

Thanx Charlie for the explanation...though I would think it would only move when pressure from the MC was applied...? Oh well I'll have to look into getting a clamp then to make sure I get it depressed just in case it's needed on a reverse bleed.

How much do you have to press in on it to keep it where it should be?

1quick6 where did you get your clampers at?

 

[1quick6]

Thanx Charlie for the explanation...though I would think it would only move when pressure from the MC was applied...? Oh well I'll have to look into getting a clamp then to make sure I get it depressed just in case it's needed on a reverse bleed.

How much do you have to press in on it to keep it where it should be?

1quick6 where did you get your clampers at?

They have those slide jaw pistol grip clamps everywhere. Walfart, Target, home stores, mom and pop hardware stores, the dollar stores... I didn't use much pressure at all, in fact just enough to keep the clamp from falling off.

 

[Fast4Ward]

1quick6, i received a booster with the C snap ring....its not a solid round...do i need to swap this out or will it work? ... also the box had a set of light blue port plugs, they don't have a holes and appears you have to drill them out?

 

[1quick6]

Take a look at these pics Kieth had supplied in another thread.

Those port plugs are used for one method of bench bleeding, which I don't like. You plug the ports and bench bleed, watching for bubbles in each reservoir. I just don't think that method is as effective as using tubing and port adapters. Napa makes a master cyclinder bleed kit with the correct nippled port adapters for $8. They come with black tubing which I didn't use since you can't see the bubbles working their way out. I just stopped by Walfart and grabbed some aquarium air tubing.

 

[Fast4Ward]

my experience.
for the most part this is a one man job if you are pretty agile on removal & install.
takes only a few hrs if you got 'em.
thnx to Steve for the excellent instructions on his site.
the annoying part was the rod on the pedal, just use a long extension to pry it over once you've got the booster positioned. use a piece of wood or long clamp to hold it up for the angle. If you can't get the lock pin back in on the pedal rod, thread a steel wire in instead and twist it:biggrin:
only need to remove the pump to resevoir line at the resevoir end.
i have no whine or anything like that from the st pump. works flawlessly.
though i put speed bleeders in, i'm not so sure those check valves work and bled it old skool and opted for someone to pump the brakes.
so far so good, just gotta do a bit more bleeding as the line lock line is letting air in after first road test.
you hear a hiss or fart, you got air in the lines.
gosh am i glad i didn't end up with a bad booster or mc...knock on wood

 

[Fast4Ward]

still can't hold boostworth shiit...like none....what to do?...bleed brakes some more? brakes work pretty good....just gotta get use to the truck brakes feel:frown: ....no more leaks and line lock works good...
is there a technique perhaps?.....will they get better ...i'll be on a longer distance drive tomorrow.

 

[1quick6]

How are your rear brakes? Are they stock (pads and wheel cylinders) and did you adjust them at all? When you say you can't hold boost, are you rolling or are the rears just letting go and burning out? Mine holds a lot more at the line without rolling when compared to my old setup.

I drove a GN that had vacuum before I did my conversion and I much prefer the pedal feel of hydro.

 

[Fast4Ward]

How are your rear brakes? Are they stock (pads and wheel cylinders) and did you adjust them at all? When you say you can't hold boost, are you rolling or are the rears just letting go and burning out? Mine holds a lot more at the line without rolling when compared to my old setup.

I drove a GN that had vacuum before I did my conversion and I much prefer the pedal feel of hydro.

they slowly start to turn...stock pads and cylinders. i'll try some adjustments.

 

[1quick6]

I think if it were me, I'd do the S10 cylinders and "cheapo" softer shoes. It is a cake job as long as your brake lines disconnect easily. For now, try adjusting them with a good old brake spoon.

 

[CHANCE]

Since I'm not running a manual steering gear box how would I route the hose's from the powersteering pump to the hydroboost?

 

[Jordan_J]

I think I am about to do this conversion because my Powermaster just plain sucks. But I had a few questions.

Do you have to bend or reform the lines going into the master cylinder or will just tugging on them make them fit?

It also looks like the whole unit makes the brakes stick farther forward...does that interfere with reaching the header bolts or spark plugs any?

Great write ups though guys can't wait to start on mine!

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Do you have to bend or reform the lines going into the master cylinder or will just tugging on them make them fit?

It also looks like the whole unit makes the brakes stick farther forward...does that interfere with reaching the header bolts or spark plugs any?

Great write ups though guys can't wait to start on mine!

I bent my brake lines by hand to fit to the new position on the master. I tried to give them a nice smooth bend, nothing sharp.

I haven't noticed it being more or less difficult working around the hydroboost setup.

Good luck with the install!