Setup Criticism

[ZNix]

Hello Turbo Buick! I will be starting on my 84 Project some time in the next month or two. I have finally started building my Barn! Anyway, I plan on using the following ugprades, and I was hoping you guys could criticize it, and throw some input. I am trying to freshen up the motor, and hopefully get it to around GNX stats. I will not be using it at the strip, but just as a street driver. Here is my list of upgrades:

206/206 Cam with Flat Tap lifters from Full Throttle Speed
980- Comp Cam valve springs
160* Thermostat
3" Stainless Cat Back Exhaust (for the awesome sound!)
87 MAF, and ECM (arriving today! Yes!)
42.5# Injectors with matching TT Chip from Turbo Tweak
340 Walbro Pump and Hot Wire Kit
New Bearings, seals for engine build
TA-33 Turbo (If I can find one? Where are they sold?)
Total Cost: $1970 w/o turbo


Thanks
Zack Nix

 

[Jerryl]

Hello Turbo Buick! I will be starting on my 84 Project some time in the next month or two. I have finally started building my Barn! Anyway, I plan on using the following ugprades, and I was hoping you guys could criticize it, and throw some input. I am trying to freshen up the motor, and hopefully get it to around GNX stats. I will not be using it at the strip, but just as a street driver. Here is my list of upgrades:

206/206 Cam with Flat Tap lifters from Full Throttle Speed
980- Comp Cam valve springs
160* Thermostat
3" Stainless Cat Back Exhaust (for the awesome sound!)
87 MAF, and ECM (arriving today! Yes!)
42.5# Injectors with matching TT Chip from Turbo Tweak
340 Walbro Pump and Hot Wire Kit
New Bearings, seals for engine build
TA-33 Turbo (If I can find one? Where are they sold?)
Total Cost: $1970 w/o turbo


Thanks
Zack Nix

Zack,
Do you mean GNX stats on the 1/4 mile?

I would alos add while you are "freshening" :wink:;

Add the following:
Converter
Tires
PowerLogger
Wideband
Alky injection
Ported heads/intake/TB
Intergal DP
PS Header (Good luck finding this)
Up-pipe
HD WG
Cold air intake
Good transmission / cooler
F-body radiator

Not all of it is needed, matter of fact, none of it is really "needed".
It is a lot cheaper to do the heads and intake while you have it apart.
Don't ask me how I know.

 

[ZNix]

Im working on a "budget", as I have to get the car painted, and Interior done at the same time. I have about 2k that I am able to drop on the engine. I was thinking stock downpipe, and uppipe would be perfect . Tires are on my list, just not under the engine section. Is there a better way to spend the 2k? Or am I on the ball?

Thanks
Zack

 

[Jerryl]

Im working on a "budget", as I have to get the car painted, and Interior done at the same time. I have about 2k that I am able to drop on the engine. I was thinking stock downpipe, and uppipe would be perfect . Tires are on my list, just not under the engine section. Is there a better way to spend the 2k? Or am I on the ball?

Thanks
Zack

Zack,
I just read your original post. You will NOT be using it at the track. (My bad :frown
Based on that;

If the motor runs ok, compression and leak down are good, LEAVE IT ALONE!
Verify the timing chain pending miles, bearings/replace oil pan gasket, verify hot oil pressure.

If it were my hard earned $$, I would spend the $$ on the PL, alky kit, 6.0 TT chip and a WB.
Keep the stock injectors, just have them cleaned and flowed.

Port the intake, turn up the boost, and that little 6 will surprise you, and many. Good luck!

 

[ZNix]

Hmm.. Well that sounds like a good idea, but I don't know if that will bring me to my goal of GNX Stats. Though, I could be wrong. Not that I don't trust your judgement, but I am hoping some others can chime in? Anyone?

 

[ZNix]

Is there a way to calculate horsepower or torque with my setup?

 

[Boost231]

IMOP if your going to change out the cam (stock cam is fine unless its hurt) then put a set of ported irons on it. That one mod (heads) will give you a great gain in performance

 

[Boostnitup]

Ta-33c

They come up for sale in here from time to time as well. :biggrin: I gave a great deal to a member on my low miles unit. New... over $900 with core now.

For the amount of money it will cost you to have the labor performed on that intake... I suggest waiting for an offering from one of the guys upgrading their setups, and use the stocker for awhile.

Injectors... overkill. You can get by with some 36lbs with that setup. They are common to find, and cheap. Suggestion. Run a translator plus.

I use the same 206/206 cam... and it works. ----- You can go bigger!

Cost savings... if your short block if it's good... leave it alone awhile. You will find the TA33c will wake it up significantly.

You have much of the rest covered well... Get some Nitto Drag radials.

 

[Boost231]

Injectors... overkill. You can get by with some 36lbs with that setup. They are common to find, and cheap. Suggestion. Run a translator plus.

i will disagree highly with this. You can not go wrong with 60's. 60's are good from a stocker to a highly modded car.

i wish i would have done it right the first time and went with a big injector.

i have had stockers,40lb's, 42.5's, 50's and 55's. I still have my 55's but once i pull the intake im going larger yet again. then again the 55's on alky have taken me 11.00 and i still have lots of injector left but then again im spraying alot of alky. with that being said 60's will work well mild to wild

 

[Boostnitup]

60's? I believe he stated 42.5lbs

My call on it is a money call... he stated he is on a budget. His combination will never saturate a set of 36 lbs... and they are cheap.


Why not just run a set of 72 or 83lbs and a modified ecm? Price... :smile:

 

[Jerryl]

OK, both of you Sr. guys are very informed, so I must have missed something.
You guys think he can do all this motor refreshing and parts upgrades for $2000?

I can run down a list and spend $10K pretty easy, but the advice I gave is based on the OP's $2000 budget.
Alky and clean stock injectors will be FAAAR better than ANY other size injector without alky, on a DD. (Ass-U-Ming pump gas), period. :wink:
Stock injectors and alky are enough to go low 12's for sure, and the COMBINATION of the sum of the other parts are not doing that.

Scenario 1
So, let say you look around, and sit and wait . . . . . .and locate a good TA33 for $400-$500 and install it.
Now, let me run down my mental listing with the TA33 in hand, all esle being equal;
-Stock injectors and alky will still be ok, correct?
-Scan tool will still work, correct?
-New chip is needed
-PS header is questionable with the larger turbo.
-Converter will most likely need to be upgraded.
-Stock DP is a killer with the larger turbo.

Scenario 2
So, let just say that the OP does NOT install the alky kit since the $$$ was spend on the TA33. (Still $2000 total budget)
You guys think the TA33 is worth the $$ at stock boost levels, with unported heads, stock PS header, stock DP, stock converter?

IMHO, the bottom line is this:
Those of us who have spend the $$$ at one time or another all know that "go fast parts" mean NOTHING without a good chip, a good scan tool and a good tune.
"Budget" and "Fast HA" do not belong in the same sentence , and stand by my second advice (After re-reading the original question . . ).

 

[Reggie West]

I think you are on the right track here. If you have to rebuild the motor, then rebuild it back to stock. The valve springs are a good idea and so is the cam. I would not go for ported and polished heads and intake at this point unless you run across a smoking good deal on a set in here. Plan on spending $1000 for a ported set of heads and intake but you might find a deal on a set on the board.

Match the injectors to the turbo you buy.

An exhaust system will help with performance but a down pipe will help even more. I would spend money there.

A healthy motor will kill a stock trans in a heart beat. Trust me I know. If the trans is in good shape, spend the money on a 9 inch converter. If you still want the lock up feature look for a 10 inch lock up or a 9/11 with a lock up. Do this while you have the motor out.

Two other things. Replace the fuel filter while the motor is out. I did not see it in your sig but if you dont have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, buy on of them. You will need it.

Check the motor mounts too. With mileage, they wear out.

Keep us posted.

Hello Turbo Buick! I will be starting on my 84 Project some time in the next month or two. I have finally started building my Barn! Anyway, I plan on using the following ugprades, and I was hoping you guys could criticize it, and throw some input. I am trying to freshen up the motor, and hopefully get it to around GNX stats. I will not be using it at the strip, but just as a street driver. Here is my list of upgrades:

206/206 Cam with Flat Tap lifters from Full Throttle Speed
980- Comp Cam valve springs
160* Thermostat
3" Stainless Cat Back Exhaust (for the awesome sound!)
87 MAF, and ECM (arriving today! Yes!)
42.5# Injectors with matching TT Chip from Turbo Tweak
340 Walbro Pump and Hot Wire Kit
New Bearings, seals for engine build
TA-33 Turbo (If I can find one? Where are they sold?)
Total Cost: $1970 w/o turbo


Thanks
Zack Nix

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

IMHO, the bottom line is this:
Those of us who have spend the $$$ at one time or another all know that "go fast parts" mean NOTHING without a good chip, a good scan tool and a good tune.
"Budget" and "Fast HA" do not belong in the same sentence , and stand by my second advice (After re-reading the original question . . ).[/QUOTE]

X2 Here.

I have been down this road and made alot of mistakes and spent alot of money in the process.Throwing money at the wall will eventually work if you stay with it-I have proven that. Hind sight is 20/20. On a buget- I will have to agree that the money should be spent first on the powerlogger, Alky, TT6.0 and wideband O2 sensor. Leave the motor alone and do not waste time and dollars up front on a cam, ported heads, turbo charger, ported intake, downpipe, exhaust etc. Tune the stock motor and turn up the boost (stock Turbo) and you will be as fast as a GNX if not faster. My 2 cents- Brad

 

[Jerryl]

. . . . Match the injectors to the turbo you buy.

An exhaust system will help with performance but a down pipe will help even more. I would spend money there.

A healthy motor will kill a stock trans in a heart beat. Trust me I know. If the trans is in good shape, spend the money on a 9 inch converter. If you still want the lock up feature look for a 10 inch lock up or a 9/11 with a lock up. Do this while you have the motor out.

Two other things. Replace the fuel filter while the motor is out. I did not see it in your sig but if you dont have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, buy on of them. You will need it.

Check the motor mounts too. With mileage, they wear out.

Keep us posted.

Regie,
I respectfully disagree. :tongue:

A good stock trans will hold up to 350HP, easy.
Without the turbo, AND boost, the car will not be putting down 350.
The torque will not be there either on a stock boost level unported HA. :wink:

Ported heads ALWAYS help, but the unported hads regurarly run 115-118 mph on an IC'd car, so they are no where near the system constraint.
There is much more to making a bigger turbo work on a HA than on a IC'd car.
The OEM HA design is just not in our favor.
PS: DP is $600, purchased.

Heads, turbo, DP, scantool, and other listed parts can not be easily done for $2000.
If you "have to" or have your heart set on upgrading injectors, sure, get the 60's, but the real question is; "Are they needed"?

We should ALL be advising to tune for no KR, and not "buy cool parts".
There is only way way to tune: With a good scantool.

........ On a buget- I will have to agree that the money should be spent first on the powerlogger, Alky, TT6.0 and wideband O2 sensor. Leave the motor alone and do not waste time and dollars up front on a cam, ported heads, turbo charger, ported intake, downpipe, exhaust etc. . . . . .

I agree with Brad.

 

[charlief1]

Generally most of the mods you want to make aren't that big a deal. If you're going to change the valve springs and cam then you need to have the heads off to check for valve guide clearance. At the same time you can get a 3 angle valve job done, and if you're adventurous you can port the heads your self. Not a very hard thing to do if you read up on how to or ask questions.

Boost231, Brad, and Jerryl have all been there and done that and they will give you some of the best advice. If it helps I'm doing my own "red headed step child" and have learned a lot about how to make it work. Unfortunatly I'm on my own because of the fact that there's no support for the early draw through system so I have to rely on lots of reading and asking questions. Between myself and my bud Aj in NM we've been able to figure out how to do what we want and it's because of people like the above mentioned. Thanks guys.

 

[ZNix]

Thanks a lot guys. Im not big on putting an alky kit in. I really do not want to drill holes in the stock intake. So that means I'm down to:

Valve Springs
Cam + Lifters (Not recommended though?)
Injectors + Chip + Scan Tool (That was always in my plan)
Wideband 02
87 MAF and ECM
Adjustable Fuel Pressure Reg.

Did I cover it all?

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Thanks a lot guys. Im not big on putting an alky kit in. I really do not want to drill holes in the stock intake. So that means I'm down to:

Valve Springs
Cam + Lifters (Not recommended though?)
Injectors + Chip + Scan Tool (That was always in my plan)
Wideband 02
87 MAF and ECM
Adjustable Fuel Pressure Reg.

Did I cover it all?

Alky nozzle does not go on the intake manifold at all. It simply attaches to the turbo to intake adapter. This way you don't have to screw around drilling holes in the intake and guessing the right location. Alky provides race gas performance when needed- five pounds boost and up. It also allows 20 lbs boost with no knock. Ten pounds higher than stock which increases HP easily 80 on a stock 200 HP engine. Do the math-nothing provides more power at a $700 cost-I mean nothing unless you use race gas. Take care- Brad

 

[ZNix]

Really? AWESOME! So Alky is definetely on the list now! Looks like im dropping 1,600 in the motor. Heres the list again! Lets hope its better this time
Alky Kit: $600
New Berrings: $50
Power Logger: $265
Fuel Pump Upgrade + Hotwire Kit: $175
Turbo Tweak Chip: $85 (I dont have a chip with my 87 ECM)
Adjustable Wastegate Actuator: $90
Adjustable Fuel Pressure: $110
Gasket Kit: $33 (w/o cylinder head gaskets)
Head Gaskets: $59
Valve Springs: $42
Big Mouth Air Kit: $225
ZDDPlus (6 Pack): $60
Total Cost: About: $1600-1700

Is that good ?

 

[ZNix]

Really? AWESOME! So Alky is definetely on the list now! Looks like im dropping 1,600 in the motor. Heres the list again! Lets hope its better this time
Alky Kit: $600
New Berrings: $50
Power Logger: $265
Fuel Pump Upgrade + Hotwire Kit: $175
Turbo Tweak Chip: $85 (I dont have a chip with my 87 ECM)
Adjustable Wastegate Actuator: $90
Adjustable Fuel Pressure: $110
Gasket Kit: $33 (w/o cylinder head gaskets)
Head Gaskets: $59
Valve Springs: $42
Big Mouth Air Kit: $225
ZDDPlus (6 Pack): $60
Total Cost: About: $1600-1700

Is that good ?

 

[Boost231]

list looks good. if you are on a "budget" i have a hotwire harness that use to be on my car for sale. i will sale it to you for next to nothing.

Also i have one of these HOT AIR Big Mouth Cold Air Induction System Page here at the house (arizona house) that i could sale you to, that would save you money. only thing that i dont have with that kit is the bend right before the airfilter and the airfilter itself. you could call mark and get just those 2 items and i can sale you the rest of the kit cheaper then his site. reason i took these 2 items off the car is i changed my hotwire harness for the fuel pump to bigger gauge wire and did some custom stuff and the cold air kit i took off because i went MAFless. also im sure if you post in the wanted section you could find more parts for cheap. i swear i have a adjustable wastegate at the house in arizona to but im not 100% sure but i could check. i know i have a billet regulator at the house but you would have to get a rebuild kit from GBodyParts.com Online and rebuild it since it has a very very small leak. just throwing it out there since i know how working on a "budget" is. well kinda