To gridle or not to Girdle, That is the question.......

[BetMinesFaster]

Hey all, Im prepping for the engine build finally, the combo is this.....

-250 stroker
-BHJ balancer
-steel main caps
-218*ish roller cam
-T&D 1.65's
-ported GN1's
-Ported intake
-Ta's with a PT71GTQ about 25ish PSI
-RJC megacooler
-83's with a MAFPRO and ALKY
-3800 NL with a built 4R

So im kinda torn now over the RJC girdle or Girdle-less...........I hear nothing but good things about girdling a fast 109, the goals are a high nine capable engine without falling apart.....So what to do?? I was told by someone reliable that a girdle is a useless waste!!! Thats contrary to all else I have heard! What to do

 

[BlackBandit]

I haven't built an engine that fast but I would definitely girdle it if I did.

 

[49-blues]

my view on it is if you re running a forged crank just use steel caps, if you re running a stock crank use a girdle.

 

[Junior Samples]

To gridle or not to Girdle, That is the question.......

Ryan, hmmmm thats a toughy, See when IM upnorth camping, In the morning theres nothing better then some fresh hotcakes on the GRIDLE:biggrin:

box shipped tomorrow!

 

[BetMinesFaster]

hahahaha, I better fix that spelling! Thanks dude!

 

[BetMinesFaster]

It is a forged crank, I was planning on steel center mains and a girdle.....Thats cheap overkill to me....Maybe im crazy, It cant hurt can it?

 

[BLACK6PACK]

I'd girdle it. Why take a chance if you're spending that much money. Also, if you really push this car, you may want to start looking at 95lb injectors. My brother was maxing out his 83s with a 70gtq and his is only a 235 CI motor.

 

[Amelio]

IMHO you can never spend too much money in strength for the bottom end. Our car tke such a large beating on the bottom side. I learned the hard way... brand new engine I built used stock bottom end stuff, when I put it on the Dyno I only made it to 19psi before I streched a rod bolt and spun a bearing Brand new engine wiped out...I rebuilt it with ARP rod bolts and I BOUGHT A GIRDLE!!!

IMO it is money well spent especially if plan to push that heavy iron into the 9's :biggrin:

 

[BetMinesFaster]

It was Dan from DLS who said a girdle is a waste, I cant think of anybody I would trust more than him, but a girdle just seems like cheap insurance to me and was surprised to hear Dan say it was a waste, Im still thinking im going to send him a girdle and request he install it with my shortblock build.......

 

[BadAssGN]

the purpose of the Girdle is to hold the main caps in place by having the pain rail tied into the mains and preloading the Main caps. This prevents deflection of the stock crank which is what breaks the crank.

With Forged internals, Billet centre mains and Studs are all you need.

My $0.02

 

[rking]

Girdle it and you'll never look back...

 

[Rodney87GN]

my view on it is if you re running a forged crank just use steel caps, if you re running a stock crank use a girdle.

+1

 

[rock105]

Hey all, Im prepping for the engine build finally, the combo is this.....

-250 stroker
-BHJ balancer
-steel main caps
-218*ish roller cam
-T&D 1.65's
-ported GN1's
-Ported intake
-Ta's with a PT71GTQ about 25ish PSI
-RJC megacooler
-83's with a MAFPRO and ALKY
-3800 NL with a built 4R

So im kinda torn now over the RJC girdle or Girdle-less...........I hear nothing but good things about girdling a fast 109, the goals are a high nine capable engine without falling apart.....So what to do?? I was told by someone reliable that a girdle is a useless waste!!! Thats contrary to all else I have heard! What to do

I would to strenthen up the block to keep from having to do it down the road. Especially since you are going to make alot of power. Fellows correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a girdle be a must in his application if he is planning on using the available boost that turbo has to offer.

 

[Phoneguy]

I was wondering this as well. I was also told by Dan at DLS NOT to girdle. He builds some pretty fast motors and this would be additional income to him as he has the equipment to do the job, I trust his judgement but am curious at the same time.

Bryan

 

[Amelio]

The way I view it wether you want to say it helps or not....no one has proven that it hurts so IMO it is $300 or so dollars well spent on a $6k engine or better.

To me it's just like everything else with these cars....can you run 10s with stock heads ....sure there are guys doing it but is it easier to achiev with better heads ....yup

So that is my train of thought, can you push these engines hard without a girdle...I suppose there are guys doing it...would it be better to have it well no one said it hurts and the money spent on a 9's engine I think you would be able to afford an additional few hundred dollars.

just my opinion...good luck with your decision.:biggrin:

 

[Nick Micale]

..............I hear nothing but good things about girdling a fast 109, the goals are a high nine capable engine without falling apart.....So what to do?? I was told by someone reliable that a girdle is a useless waste!!! Thats contrary to all else I have heard! What to do

I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it should be qualified.

We have done MANY girdled 109 blocks and lots of these are in GN's running high 9's. With the girdle and forged internals, the weak link is then the block itself. We have 3 recent 109 blocks from 9 sec. GN's that have split the main webs.

A mid to low 9 sec. 109 build should be "checked" about every 25 runs, if it makes it. When you put 8-900 HP through a 109 block, it is way beyond its design limits and expect the worst in a short time.

For a mid-10 sec. build, if the tune is perfect, it should last with forged internals and caps. Push it harder than that, a girdle would be a must.

The 109 block is ~50#'s lighter than a stage block. All that extra metal is to strengthen the stage block, and many of them have given up at the 1100-1200 HP level.

Like was stated, why spend $10K or more on a 9 sec. build and NOT include a girdle.

 

[Dominic]

Most all of the block failures i have seen are above the crank, which makes me believe that the girdle wont help. From what i have seen the crank just wants to be pushed right out the bottom, and no matter what type of girdle you have it wont make a difference.

I have a 86 T with stock hand ported heads and intake, stock throttle body,crank,rods, in a 109 with 2 billet caps and it cracked right below the water jacket and thru the mains to the cam journals. I ran it for about 2 years then it split. The car went consistant high 6.30's low 6.40's @ 110 with a best of 6.22 @ 111.78. After that i came to the conclusion you can polish $#@t all you want but in the end all you will have is a polished piece of $#@t. Stage2 block is next on my build list.

 

[BetMinesFaster]

I'd girdle it. Why take a chance if you're spending that much money. Also, if you really push this car, you may want to start looking at 95lb injectors. My brother was maxing out his 83s with a 70gtq and his is only a 235 CI motor.

Wow, he maxed out the 83's!! Was he on the alky or not?? I run a dual nozzle and spray the ever living hell outta it:biggrin:

 

[BetMinesFaster]

Most all of the block failures i have seen are above the crank, which makes me believe that the girdle wont help. From what i have seen the crank just wants to be pushed right out the bottom, and no matter what type of girdle you have it wont make a difference.

I have a 86 T with stock hand ported heads and intake, stock throttle body,crank,rods, in a 109 with 2 billet caps and it cracked right below the water jacket and thru the mains to the cam journals. I ran it for about 2 years then it split. The car went consistant high 6.30's low 6.40's @ 110 with a best of 6.22 @ 111.78. After that i came to the conclusion you can polish $#@t all you want but in the end all you will have is a polished piece of $#@t. Stage2 block is next on my build list.

Correct me if im wrong but if you tie the pan rails to the mains wont that help hold it from splitting? You would think that tieing everything together would help stop that sort of failure???? Maybe im dumb??

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Wow, he maxed out the 83's!! Was he on the alky or not?? I run a dual nozzle and spray the ever living hell outta it:biggrin:

No, he's running in TSM so no alky. Didn't pay attention to you running alky. You should be able to get away with the 83s. He was running right at 9.7 @ 140 and the 83s were at 100% duty cycle.