Video of New 109 Block Being Machined for Girdle

[WPP-Bill]

To help customers better understand how Weber Power Products girdles blocks, we have put a short video on our website for everyone to view. In this video we are using our RMC V30 CNC Machining Center to machine for a girdle on a new 109 block.

3.8L Buick Girdle Machining

This block belongs to "bad V6" and we would like to thank him for allowing us to share this video with the other members of this forum.

More videos will follow in the near future...

 

[WE2Regal]

Nice work Bill!

 

[Duke]

Are you taking material from the block rail only to insure flatness for a good seal ?

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Are you taking material from the block rail only to insure flatness for a good seal ?

The above video shows the process Weber Power Products uses to machine the Buick V-6 for a main girdle. We prefer to machine the timing cover in the same process to ensure a perfect fit. The main caps are also machined in this setup so that when the girdle is installed all four shims will be the same thickness and the clearance between the block and the girdle will be identical all the way around for proper fit, preload, and to minimize the possibility of an oil leak. In this fixture, all machining is done perfectly perpendicular to the mains which is the best method of alignment possible and the forth axis (angle of block) is accurate to .002 of a degree.

There simply is no better way to machine a Buick V-6 for a girdle!

^^^^^^^
from their website

 

[blackmonte]

Thanks for sharing , very cool

 

[Boost231]

so what do you do when you need to replace the front cover with a new one?

very nice video by the way

 

[GNBRETT]

How does that process differ from the way RPE or DLS does it? Apparently their process works quite well considering they have the fastest motors around.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

SG1 is on TR motors too ?

 

[turboclam]

Would it be better to shave the pan rail with torque plates installed? I've also heard that 1 out of 10 blocks need the pan rail decked if installing a girdle.

 

[SHADOWII]

Thanks for......

posting the video.

 

[WPP-Bill]

so what do you do when you need to replace the front cover with a new one?

very nice video by the way

We are selling our new GM ported/blueprinted front covers these builds. With that being said, you should not run into any issues where it needs to be changed. If down the road the front cover needs to be changed, any competent machine shop would be able to match your new cover to the old by measuring from the dowels.

Thanks everyone for the nice comments, PM's, and E-mails regarding the video. We will keep the camera battery charged.

 

[bad V6]

Bill, thanks for making this available to those of us on the forum. Weber made this video in an attempt to give us a better understanding of the machining process that they do when prepping the block for a girdle. Hopefully they will be posting more videos or pictures of this and other builds in the future.

I can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[turbodave231]

Anybody measured a new girdle for flatness lately? The last 2 girdles I bought were WAY out of flat. One came from ESP and one from RJC. Both were over .017 out measured on a surface plate.

I had to send both girdles out to be surface ground before use. I used the same technique as Weber to machine the pan rails.......but I only have a lowly RMC V-20 to work with.

 

[Race Jace]

Anybody measured a new girdle for flatness lately? The last 2 girdles I bought were WAY out of flat. One came from ESP and one from RJC. Both were over .017 out measured on a surface plate.

I had to send both girdles out to be surface ground before use. I used the same technique as Weber to machine the pan rails.......but I only have a lowly RMC V-20 to work with.

In a free state the girdles might not be completely flat. There is machining tolerances and some relief that happens over time .017 is a little excessive but not unheard of. But this is not a problem. Once you restrain the girdle by tightening it down to the surface you have created with the top of the caps it conforms to that surface however unlevel it might be. That is why we make the girdle out of the material we do so it can conform. otherwise you would have to get everything perfect or it would twist things all out of proportion. It is also made to absorb a certain amount of unevenness between the cap register and the pan rail. The maximum amount it can absorb without distortion is .007.

hope this helps.

 

[jhanson1750]

thanks for posting the vid. I do have a question though.
Is there a reason that you run with the coolant/cutting fluid not flowing?
I would think you are keeping the fluids out of the block but there is still the cleaning to get the shavings cleaned out.
Not knocking just wondering. Thanks again for the vid. Jon Hanson

 

[charlief1]

Would it be better to shave the pan rail with torque plates installed? I've also heard that 1 out of 10 blocks need the pan rail decked if installing a girdle.

Gotta agree with you. With the flexablility of the design the torque plates or at least the heads should be on the block to make sure everything is stressed properly.

 

[Bryan Weber]

Gotta agree with you. With the flexibility of the design the torque plates or at least the heads should be on the block to make sure everything is stressed properly.

A few years ago I had the same question so I dial indicated the pan rail with and without the torque plates installed and found that the effect of the torque plates on the pan rail to be zero. The effect that the torque plates had on the main bores was also zero.

The one thing that does make a HUGE difference on multiple dimensions of the block is several hundred horsepower going through it. Unfortunately there is just no way to reproduce these stresses in the machining process.

 

[Bryan Weber]

Anybody measured a new girdle for flatness lately? The last 2 girdles I bought were WAY out of flat. One came from ESP and one from RJC. Both were over .017 out measured on a surface plate.

I had to send both girdles out to be surface ground before use. I used the same technique as Weber to machine the pan rails.......but I only have a lowly RMC V-20 to work with.

The V-20 is also a very good machine! There are few other shops in the country that have made that kind of investment to be able to do higher quality work. I applaud you for that!

 

[Bryan Weber]

thanks for posting the vid. I do have a question though.
Is there a reason that you run with the coolant/cutting fluid not flowing?
I would think you are keeping the fluids out of the block but there is still the cleaning to get the shavings cleaned out.
Not knocking just wondering. Thanks again for the vid. Jon Hanson

If I was hogging alot of material I would probably use coolant, but for the light cutting these blocks are getting I do not. Cutting cast iron creates alot of cast iron dust and when you add coolant to it is a mess. The part doesn't get any heat so the only advantage would be extended tool life. The mess just isn't worth it to me.

 

[Race Jace]

The one thing that does make a HUGE difference on multiple dimensions of the block is several hundred horsepower going through it. Unfortunately there is just no way to reproduce these stresses in the machining process.

yes very true. where is this load all being placed? at the motor mounts. this is just about as far forward and as narrow on the block as you can get. very bad for load distribution. all that torque and twisting force is transmitted through the entire block with the motor mounts holding it with the least amount of leverage. That is why we developed the Rear Motor Brace or "RMB" It acts as a mid plate placing all of the torsional load of the motor on the rear of the motor and as wide as you can get so it has the most leverage. This changes it from the worst scenario to the best with one simple bolt on part.

take a look
RMB