what about TST (True Street Turbo) class?

[KevinB]

Tsa rules are about as strict as you can get and I wouldn't be surprised if one goes tens this year. Let's face it, no matter how you rearrange the rules for these cars, someone is going to get in the 10's.

 

[Pronto]

The problem is try to "over rule" a class as it were. Just add it must have a "stock appearing bolt-on inlet bell" on the turbo. Something very simple and no I dont think Garys intent is even a mid 10'second class. Im thinking his intent is mid-low 11 second class. Some of the class rules now make them appear to be more stringent than even an NHRA stock eliminator class. The less rules the better. 4-5 simple rules and run what ya brung...

We may try one in NC with Shanes rules:

Weight (3400 - 3450)
Buick Regal (I wouldnt care if TTA)How about any original Turbo Buick or TTA
109 How about any v6 block that's not a Stage block
Small Journal turbo
SLIC
Current registration for the street
Thats it!!

That would encompass LOTS of cars currently on the street

I would like that class. It would let lot's of regular guys run and still be competative. I just added my thoughts in red.

 

[Sydwyndr]

I would like that class. It would let lot's of regular guys run and still be competative. I just added my thoughts in red.

Weight (3450)
How about any original Turbo Buick or TTA - check
How about any v6 block that's not a Stage block - check
Small Journal turbo
SLIC
Current registration / License for the street - check

There we go! Simple enuff....

Again keeping the rules simple is the key, no non-sense.

Sorry Gary, don't mean to hijack your thread sir.....

Pronto, if this class emergers will you come to NC to support it??

 

[bad V6]

Does anyone have an idea as to how many TA series turbos Precision and Limit are selling? My quess would be very few. And the number of participants would be alot less than the number of guys running a TA series turbo.

 

[KevinB]

Weight (3450)
How about any original Turbo Buick or TTA - check
How about any v6 block that's not a Stage block - check
Small Journal turbo
SLIC
Current registration / License for the street - check

There we go! Simple enuff....

Again keeping the rules simple is the key, no non-sense.

Sorry Gary, don't mean to hijack your thread sir.....

Pronto, if this class emergers will you come to NC to support it??

My thoughts so far:
-I think making a drag radial class would be cool.
-If you stick to ta style only turbos, you are going to leave a lot of people out. If you do smaller than 67, you are going to need to make rings and plugs for turbos. Also, you may find yourself having to have people pull the turbo covers off to measure them.
-3450 seems like a low wieght. Watching the scales at the ths events so far, the majority of the cars are all 3600+ with driver.
-maybe do a 7.00 index (1/8th) and 11.0 index 1/4 and be real liberal with the rules....as far as saying, everything goes, dot tire, brake lights will DQ a racer (this prevents sand baggers.)

 

[bad V6]

Weight (3450)
How about any original Turbo Buick or TTA - check
How about any v6 block that's not a Stage block - check
Small Journal turbo
SLIC
Current registration / License for the street - check

There we go! Simple enuff....

Again keeping the rules simple is the key, no non-sense.

Even at that you're going to have guys running in the mid 10's. Other than a front mount, I ran 10.7 last year with a 3650# car with a 61 series turbo at 22#.

 

[Slow91z]

Weight (3450)
How about any original Turbo Buick or TTA - check
How about any v6 block that's not a Stage block - check
Small Journal turbo
SLIC
Current registration / License for the street - check

So basically light weight TSM cars with 67's and a SLIC...Oh and they could tub the cars and run a 4 link...Now I want to be clear, I'm not trying to be negative I want Buick heads up racing to be around for years and years, but less rules equals super fast cars, and super fast cars scare away people.

I think Gary's idea is closer than this one to working (IMO) and I think it has a place, (whether people will show is another matter)...I would have had a blast in a class like that with my last car.

 

[SS/GN]

I think there are too many classes already

x2

Kevin

 

[Sydwyndr]

My thoughts so far:
-I think making a drag radial class would be cool.
-If you stick to ta style only turbos, you are going to leave a lot of people out. If you do smaller than 67, you are going to need to make rings and plugs for turbos. Also, you may find yourself having to have people pull the turbo covers off to measure them.
-3450 seems like a low wieght. Watching the scales at the ths events so far, the majority of the cars are all 3600+ with driver.
-maybe do a 7.00 index (1/8th) and 11.0 index 1/4 and be real liberal with the rules....as far as saying, everything goes, dot tire, brake lights will DQ a racer (this prevents sand baggers.)

We already have a 6.99 index so that is covered, would a 62mm go/no go gauge work in the inlet side??

 

[bison]

Make it really simple:

A/C
109
62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)
3400 min weight car/driver

forget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

At 3400 this is a 9.80-9.90 class with a 6262 and a 9.60-9.70 class with a 6265. Too expensive to draw any newcomers once someone goes out there and purpose builds an engine to maximize those turbos. The turbine needs to be smaller to keep the power down. Allowing a 62 trim ex wheel you are basically having the same backpressure as an old 76 p trim. The 65 trim has even less backpressure than the 62. The cars will go a lot faster than most would think. If someone wants to send me any small shaft turbo 6076, 6176, 6262 or equivalent small shaft ill make a couple passes in my 3500# blue car with less than 8:1 on 93/alky and show that those turbos are too much. That is a junk engine with junk heads and it still went 10.61 with a 60-1 from 1996. It was a T04S 60-1 but the shaft size isnt making more power. The only other item that would need to be changed is the FM. With the alky spraying in it isnt doing much anyway. Ill probably drop 10 lbs with an SL and i still will be able to remove another 110lbs from the car and weigh 3400+. I dont believe the 65 ex wheel is a small shaft but i could be wrong.It wouldnt be hard for a competent machinist to grind the shaft and run in in the t3 bearing housing anyway.

 

[jetmech]

why not just take a poll of people that would race in this class if it was setup 4 different ways. Make up 4 different classes with different rules and see which one has the most votes. Remember you want car count so try not to exclude to many items that may have been on someones car for the last 5 years. Everyones cars are probably currently already built a certain way and you want to make this class appealing for this type of person. There may be someone that builds a purpose built car but so what, if there are 10-16 car fields and have to go 4 rounds of racing i think everyone would have fun.. I know the die hard ths and tsm guys love their class but it cant be all that fun to have a 3 car field. Make this class easy on the rules and limit the turbo, and weight, and allow any type of vehicle in w/ a stock type block even if its a TTA or hybrid. Good Luck

 

[Otto J]

Make it really simple:A/C109 62 or smaller 3 bolt turbo (small shaft)3400 min weight car/driverforget the rest of that stuff. Who cares if the car has matching rims, boost gauge, or 200 tranny. None of that makes it no less of a street car. I would stay away from street tires as TSR will have that in 2012. Simple rules means more participation.

I have a car ready for this class

 

[Slow91z]

There may be someone that builds a purpose built car but so what, if there are 10-16 car fields and have to go 4 rounds of racing i think everyone would have fun.. I know the die hard ths and tsm guys love their class but it cant be all that fun to have a 3 car field.

You mean just like THS at BG last fall?? No one wants 3 car fields, but you can poll all you want and most of the people that vote on the internet will never show up to a race.

 

[Sydwyndr]

At 3400 this is a 9.80-9.90 class with a 6262 and a 9.60-9.70 class with a 6265. Too expensive to draw any newcomers once someone goes out there and purpose builds an engine to maximize those turbos. The turbine needs to be smaller to keep the power down. Allowing a 62 trim ex wheel you are basically having the same backpressure as an old 76 p trim. The 65 trim has even less backpressure than the 62. The cars will go a lot faster than most would think. If someone wants to send me any small shaft turbo 6076, 6176, 6262 or equivalent small shaft ill make a couple passes in my 3500# blue car with less than 8:1 on 93/alky and show that those turbos are too much. That is a junk engine with junk heads and it still went 10.61 with a 60-1 from 1996. It was a T04S 60-1 but the shaft size isnt making more power. The only other item that would need to be changed is the FM. With the alky spraying in it isnt doing much anyway. Ill probably drop 10 lbs with an SL and i still will be able to remove another 110lbs from the car and weigh 3400+. I dont believe the 65 ex wheel is a small shaft but i could be wrong.It wouldnt be hard for a competent machinist to grind the shaft and run in in the t3 bearing housing anyway.

sound like a deal there, we are a long way away from the event. Maybe the class should linit to a 49 turbo....

 

[Pronto]

The reason I thought that weight was OK is my friends TTA weighs that. Would this be 1/4 mile? and when would it be (spring-summer-fall)?

 

[TurboDave]

Grrrrr! Already starts. A new class with new rules (sure not too many). But it knocks out several more cars, like mine for instance that would fit all the above rules EXCEPT, I run a front mount IC.

Rules, even the simplest will exclude cars. That's why I always argue so strongly for index racing. It excludes no one. My car isn't all that fast (8.0 on a good track) so wouldn't be competative in this new class even if I had a SLIC. But can easily be tuned to run off an index.



But, not to worry, I'll still do whatever I can to make the event (tb.com nats) and support it in any way I can.

 

[Slow91z]

Grrrrr! Already starts. A new class with new rules (sure not too many). But it knocks out several more cars, like mine for instance that would fit all the above rules EXCEPT, I run a front mount IC.

Rules, even the simplest will exclude cars. That's why I always argue so strongly for index racing. It excludes no one. My car isn't all that fast (8.0 on a good track) so wouldn't be competative in this new class even if I had a SLIC. But can easily be tuned to run off an index.



But, not to worry, I'll still do whatever I can to make the event (tb.com nats) and support it in any way I can.

But they already have index racing, so why are you even in here?? If you like index racing so much, do it...There's nothing wrong with it I have done it a couple times myself at the local track, I like it but it's no where near as exciting as heads up.

 

[scot w.]

ya'll want "the fewest rules" i still contend that index racing is the best way to go!!! No i don't mean bracket racing, i mean index'd.

Screw the rules.

You either run the number or you go home. As simple as it gets.

No box, index racing, nuff said.

Yes index racing has no rules but they are already in place at most events and there are just as many people that don't like index racing... back to square one... LOL

 

[turbo nasty]

No Nitrous
Street tire....If its DOT approved then??
Boost controller?
Launch control, etc?
Frame Notch?
Full interior?
Fuel Cell.... stock fuel tank only?
Curious on how the turbo size is going to work.

 

[KevinB]

I think you guys are running in circles. Tsr would be the class you are trying to make, limited rules with a true street tire. Ths is a set of more strict rules but sticky tires are allowed. If you make a class requiring ac and everything else but a 62 turbo, essentially its ths with a smaller turbo. If you start a class that requires a real street tire, then you just created a tsr class with strict rules.
Everyone is going to want a class their car fits in and is competitive in. Reality is that no matter what you do, someone will run 10's. If you are wanting a 11 or 12 sec class, I think it is impossible. My car has everything to fit this proposed class and weighs in at 3650lbs. I am pretty sure putting a 6265 on it will not keep it from running mid to high 10s. With real street tires, I am guessing 11.0's because I have run on worn out drag radials on an unprepped track with 2.2 60's and still went 10.9. I think an index class is going to be your best bet for people running 12s and want a chance at winning a race.