What brand and where to get bearings to get for 650 hp 109?

[GBGN1]

Is good ole clevite 77 going to cut it?

(roller cam,steel wide journal stroker crank)

 

[3.8L V-8 eater]

Weber racing sells a coated bearing...They are Calico bearings and if they use them they must work cause there not doing stock rebuilds .........

 

[Nick Micale]

I would contact a Buick engine builder that has used a wide journal rod in his build lately, as the 77's are rather narrow, but might be OK?

There are a couple shops I can ask, and will let you know what they have done for a wide journal rod bearing.

 

[GBGN1]

That would be great. Thanks for the info. I thought all the bearings from the factory were already the wide size but if you ran a narrow crank you had to chamfer the ends?

 

[Nick Micale]

....... I thought all the bearings from the factory were already the wide size but if you ran a narrow crank you had to chamfer the ends?

Actually you are correct.

 

[GBGN1]

I figured I'd get more of a responds. Guess no body knows lol

 

[84BuickGNYorkPA]

I've seen the beatings that the "King" Bearings can take.... that's what I used in my build....

Chuck

 

[turbobitt]

I've seen the beatings that the "King" Bearings can take.... that's what I used in my build....

Chuck

When I rebuilt my Stage 2, I looked at the bearings I was using and they were a non-performance stock replacment King bearing. They must have been narrow and the two bearing halfs didn't align well when assembled in the wide journal rod. The bearings still held up fine with a bunch of 9 second passes and a lot of street miles.
I looked at my notes and can't find the new bearing P/N's I used on the rebuild. I know they were wider and matched the rod width very well. I will have to look harder and find out what they are. I don't remember using a coated bearing.

Allan G.

 

[bison]

Any of the available bearings will work. It's more important that the rod ends are round and in the same plane and that the crank is straight and the journals aren't tapered. China cranks are almost always tapered. This results in not enough clearance close to to the radius and excessive clearance in the center of the journal. Most likely due to shitty tooling and over aggressive polishing. I have assembled about 5 different engines with China cranks and everyone had journal issue(s) requiring the crank be turned on the mains or rods. It's not uncommon to need a heavy chamfer on the mains. King bearings are great for preventing crank wear but are soft and don't tolerate detonation. I use them most of the time

 

[GBGN1]

MY crank is a BA Wide and I got it from Sam colalillo. With lower miles and the crank been cut .010 on the rod side and has been fully inspected and its good to go. Probably go the clevite performance route for rods. maybe speed pro for mains and dura bond for cam. I can get them all through my jobber warehouse.

 

[turbodave231]

Personal preference: I want the superior characteristics of a tri-metal bearing. Trimetal bearings give better conformability/embedibility and tolerate boundry lubrication better than the bi-metal bearings.

There is a difference in widths for wide journal and narrow journal rod bearings. I'm using Clevite 1398H "H series bearings on Wide rods and the Clevite 1228P " P" series on narrow rods. For an all out race engine using narrow journal rods, I made a fixture so I can narrow the 1398 bearings in a lathe.

The Speed Pro (Federal Mogul) FM 107 main bearings are the only trimetal main sets that are available in -.001 so you can selectively adjust your main clearance.

Brian is 100% right when he told you that Big End roundness is critical for bearing life. Have your rods checked by a competent machinist who uses a Precision Rod Gage like a Sunnen AG-300

Here is some information direct from Mahle Clevite about bearings:

Insert bearings provide a conveniently replaceable
wear surface that allows salvage of the mating
journal by regrinding to a new undersize diameter.
Unless severely damaged, crankshafts are thus
commonly reclaimed through the use of bearing
shells manufactured to precision tolerances to
fit a standardized array of journal undersizes.
Depending on the original dimensioning practice
of the engine components, undersizes are
available in either inch or metric sizes as noted
in the catalog listing.
It would be extremely convenient for the
manufacturers of engine components and
engine rebuilders alike if all engines were able
to use the same bearing shells. Unfortunately
differences in engine displacements and power
output levels typically require unique bearings
for each engine family. These bearings not only
differ in their dimensional attributes to allow them
to properly fit with mating engine components,
they must also provide differing performance
capabilities to allow them to provide trouble
free service throughout the expected service
life of the engine. Different bearing materials
and types of construction provide a selection
of bearing performance characteristics to suit
various operating conditions and applications.
As engine designs evolved greater demands were
placed on crankshaft bearings. These demands
fall into a number of bearing performance
categories.

The first of these is surface behavior or “SURFACE
ACTION.” This is a measure of the compatibility
of the bearing surface with that of the mating
journal. Within this category are three bearing
characteristics that make up a bearing’s overall
surface behavior, they are: “Slipperiness” or the
ability to minimize friction while sliding over the
journal without causing wear to either surface.
“Embedability” is the ability to absorb dirt and
engine wear particles into the bearing surface
and render them harmless . And
“Conformability” which permits a bearing surface
to break-in or conform to the geometry and
alignment imperfections of its installation.
The second is “LOAD CARRYING.” This is the
ability to withstand engine operating loads for
long periods. Within this category are “Fatigue
Strength” which is the linings ability to resist
cracking and flaking under the cyclic loads
imposed by the dynamics of engine operation.
And “Corrosion Resistance” which is the
lining materials ability to resist chemical attack
from acids resulting from oil break-down and
by-products of combustion. Acid attack can
weaken the material structure making the lining
more susceptible to fatigue.

Third is “THERMAL PROPERTIES.” These
are “Temperature Resistance” or the ability to
maintain all other properties at engine operating
temperatures. And “Thermal Conductivity,” or
the ability to conduct heat away from the bearing
surface.

Bearings function on the principal that dissimilar
materials will have less tendency to seize with
each other than similar materials. The first
commonly used bearing material was an alloy of
lead, tin, antimony and arsenic called “Babbitt”
which was named after its inventor. Babbitt has
physical properties similar to solder. It’s soft
which allows it to conform to minor imperfections
in geometry and alignment of mating parts. This
softness also allows Babbitt to absorb dirt and
wear particles that might pass through the
bearings clearance space. Babbitt is also very
slippery which minimizes friction in the absence
of oil during startup.
Although Babbitt is the best bearing material
based on its surface behavior, it has one
serious shortcoming. By itself, in thick layers,
Babbitt cannot carry high loads for long periods.
Under the repeated cyclic loading of an internal
combustion engine Babbitt will break up and
flake out. This reaction to cyclic loading is called
“Fatigue.”
Bearings are typically constructed with a steel
backing to provide support and allow the bearing
shells to be an interference fit with their housing.
This provides retention and prevents movement
under the dynamics of engine operation. Nearly
all modern bearings fall into one of two categories
based on their type of construction. They are
either Bimetal; a steel back with a single layer of
multipurpose lining material, or Trimetal; a steel
back with an intermediate layer for strength and
a surface layer for bearing surface properties.
The earliest insert bearings were Bimetal
construction with a lining of Babbitt. As mentioned
above, although Babbitt offered optimum surface
behavior, it lacked fatigue strength. It was found
however, that the fatigue strength of Babbitt
could be significantly improved by reducing
its thickness. This principal is
employed in two alternate types of construction.
Bimetal “MICRO BABBITT” bearings use a
thinner layer of Babbitt lining to provide better
fatigue resistance, and Trimetal bearings which
use an extremely thin electroplated overlay layer
of Babbitt over a stronger intermediate layer to
combine the surface properties of Babbitt with
the greater fatigue strength of the intermediate
layer. An alloy of Copper, Lead and Tin is the
most commonly used intermediate layer. Casting
this alloy onto the steel backing provides fatigue
strength approximately 20% greater than the
alternate powdered metal process referred to
as sintering. Clevite® TriMetal™ engine bearings
feature a cast copper lead intermediate layer
for the greatest load carrying capacity available.

Original Equipment bearings have employed all of
the popular types of materials and construction
over the years. Bimetal Babbitt, Bimetal Copper-
Lead, Bimetal Aluminum, Trimetal Copper-Lead
and Trimetal Aluminum have all been used at
various times in numerous applications. Just
like the unique dimensions mentioned earlier,
which make each bearing specific to its intended
application, a specific material and type of
construction is also specified.
Trimetal bearing construction employing a cast
copper-lead intermediate layer provides the best
overall combination of all of the bearing properties
The vast majority
of Clevite® engine bearings are this type. In many
cases this material and construction duplicate
Original Equipment specifications. For example,
Heavy Duty diesel engines nearly all use Trimetal
bearings. In fact, this type of construction
commonly allows HD Diesels to enjoy service life
in the range of 500,000 miles or more. Although
some HD Original Equipment bearings use an
aluminum alloy intermediate layer, the majority
use cast copper lead. In many cases Clevite®
TriMetal™ engine bearings are an upgrade from
a Bimetal type used in Original Equipment. This
has earned Clevite the reputation of being the
ultimate High Performance bearing as attested
to by its popularity in motorsports such as
NASCAR and NHRA Top Fuel classes as well as
other form of racing.
A recent trend in Original Equipment passenger
and light truck applications has been toward the
use of aluminum alloy based Bimetal bearings.
These offer original engine manufacturers a lower
cost alternative by eliminating the electroplating
operation necessary in the manufacture of
Trimetal bearings. These Bimetal aluminum
alloy bearings typically employ a lining material
consisting of a high percentage of aluminum
combined with tin to provide some surface
action and a small percentage of silicon for wear
resistance (see figure 5). The use of a single
multipurpose lining represents a compromise
in the bearing qualities outlined above. These
compromises are generally acceptable for the
typical light duty demands of passenger car and
light truck service.
Clevite® “AS” BiMetal™ engine bearings
(part numbers with a suffix letter A) are of
aluminum, tin, silicon Bimetal type of material
and construction. These offer the engine
rebuilder an OE type of bearing for engines
going into light duty applications. They are
only recommended for applications where all
engine components have been reconditioned
to engine manufacturers original specifications.
Their use is not recommended for Heavy Duty
service where heavy demands are placed on
the engine or High Performance applications
where Clevite TriMetal™ is still the ultimate
performance choice.
No single material is perfect for every application.
Different bearing materials have different
advantages in terms of resistance to corrosion,
rate of wear, and fatigue strength. Engine
operating conditions must be considered when
selecting bearings.

 

[turbobitt]

Found some paperwork tonight. Looks like I used CB1398H Rods and 107M mains.

Allan G.

 

[GBGN1]

Thanks everyone for there input!